Mooring options

[NotBirdseye]

Hi all,

So so far I've been enjoying my boating experience, haven't thrown up once! (Give it time) So now I'm starting to look into getting my own boat. What I can't find is pro-tips on how to short hand, but I suppose I'll learn that later (much later). In the mean time, to find out how affordable boating is (or isn't) I've been looking at storage options. (12m/40ft, no I don't expect it'll be quite that size, but that's more or less the ball park).

Clearly the boat has to be put somewhere more or less sensible, you need to have decent access at the very least. I don't have a tender (and probably won't be getting one for a while) so it seems mud berths are not really a viable option.

Now, I kinda need to be south wales, north somerset is not really viable (nor is milford haven, but sure I'll consider it, I mean sure it's £3,100...).

The average Berthing cost I'm coming up with is approx £3021.56 or £251.80 a month. With Penarth being unrealistically expensive (I mean seriously £3900 a year!), Swansea and CBYC seem the best value (if you don't need anything fancy). Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that I could look in to? I can't see anywhere providing water taxi's so I can't use an Trot/Mud mooring (or I would definitely consider...ah the naivety).

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you want cheap, you get swinging mooring or mud etc.

You pay for the convenience of an alongside berth in a marina.

I don’t understand your aversion to getting a tender. If you anchor somewhere how are you going to get ashore? Perhaps I’m biased but I’ve NEVER sailed a boat without a tender. ( Unless the occasional round the cans race without a tender on board counts)

 

[NotBirdseye]

Thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated.

No aversion to getting a tender. This would be my first boat and tender is way down on the list of priorities. Initially, it'd be a lot short jaunts simply to get used to the vessel and establish/improve sailing skills. I'd happily pay for a taxi to get to and from the boat if necessary.

I certainly appreciate that there is a premium for marina berthing Penarth is out of my price bracket, but since the boat is likely to be smaller then there should be plenty within my capabilities (namely Swansea for the first year, Milford as a second option based on price alone). However I was wondering if the community were aware of any others that aren't easily found.

So far on my list is:
Milford Marina - £3100~
Neyland (Milford) - £3050~
CYC - £3,000
CBYC - £2,500
Penarth - £3,900 (ouch)
Swansea - £2,600
Portishead - £3,900
Barry (not sure I have the right fees) - £900 (I assume this is based on mud only fees).

I wonder if just walking out prior to the tide coming in, getting on the boat and then waiting would be worth it

 

[Yellow Ballad]

There's not much in the way of swinging moorings in the channel and you may struggle to find a mud mooring for a 40 footer. If you go slightly smaller mud and clubs can be very cheap (£200ish). You either have marinas or clubs, clubs being cheaper but you have to be willing to chip in. If clubs aren't your thing, and you will consider Milford Haven then Rudders Boatyard will stick a 40 footer on a swinging mooring for £1600 and have a water taxi (and free tender storage I believe).

Edit, if you do the club route, it may be worthwhile visiting and joining a club you like, speaking to a few people and crewing before buying a boat. You'll learn loads.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Hi, when you say slightly smaller, how much do you mean?

I also forgot that the mud might not always been as deep as required. Something to consider.

I have no problem with chipping in with a club (some caveats but I'm sure I can accommodate). I'll take a look at the Rudder's boat yard then. Last time I checked there was no mention of a water taxi. Much appreciated.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

NUSC I think is 38ft limit, possibly 36 and I'm sure other clubs are similar CYC, CDYC and possibly Barry YC. It'll be prudent to ask before buying a boat, and find out of there's a waiting list for the type of boat and mooring you're after.

Pretty sure Rudders water taxi is £2 ew but may only run in season. A tender/outboard you may get with your new boat, as mentioned you'll want one sooner or later.

Oh as for walking out and waiting, even with a big Bristol Channel tide you'll soon get bored of that. If you're mooring a fin you'll not be able to walk on the glup that's called mud without sinking upto your eyeballs and getting stuck in it as the tide comes in around you. A tender for £50 will be top of your list.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Interesting as the boat I'm looking at, at the moment is a 34ft. (10.5m ish).

... didn't realize tenders were that cheap. It'll be top 'o my list.

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

CDYC 30ft....9mtrs Max for moorings. No lift out facilities.

 

[Dutch01527]

Join Cardiff Yacht Club and get a mooring spot. c. £600 a year all in.

You would need a small tender to row 100 yards out to the boat. Tender can be kept at the club - £50-100 should get you something old but serviceable. There might even be one going free at the club if you ask around. Pontoon mooring (stern or bow to pontoon) is a similar price but requires “buying” the mooring for about £2,700 (I think) one time cost, refundable when you leave the club.

Traditional members club with good facilities and easy walking distance to the bright lights of Cardiff Bay. All tide access to the boat and the channel.

 

[Tamar]

Hi welcome.
Good luck hunting for boats, that's the fun bit, and when you sell it. But I had a 38 footer berthed in penarth marina years ago and I can't speak highly enough of the place, good security and excellent staff, showers laundry and even a TV room. What I didn't factor in properly was traveling costs and time from home which at that time was Hereford. So bear that in mind over marina costs, just because the further away one is cheap to berth, traveling to and from the boat might cost more in the long run.
I now live in Corfu and do miss the Bristol channel chop (not)

 

[NotBirdseye]

I also spotted Swansea Sub Aqua club that seems to have decent prices too.

Thanks Tok for that, I'm hoping for over 30ft if I can get it though, but it's certainly worth keeping track of if the right boat comes along.

Dutch, I have no issues with buying the berth, capital costs I can deal with, on going costs take some budgeting for. That said I had no idea they were refundable. Your advice is appreciated.

38mess, oh I'm not doubting Penarth Marina, it's just outta my budget. I'm more or less equidistant from swansea and cardiff (as the car travels), though Milford is certainly further so yeah I'll take that point and make the alterations to my spreadsheet. After adding this to my spreadsheet (and including Chepstow) it actually seems like Swansea will be cheaper for me at least for the first year (pontoon wise) or CYC depending on whether I get a tender asap. (As Chepstow won't take the boat , but if the right boat comes along and I pop the figures in, it'll definitely be considered.)

 

[Tamar]

I also spotted Swansea Sub Aqua club that seems to have decent prices too.

Thanks Tok for that, I'm hoping for over 30ft if I can get it though, but it's certainly worth keeping track of if the right boat comes along.

Dutch, I have no issues with buying the berth, capital costs I can deal with, on going costs take some budgeting for. That said I had no idea they were refundable. Your advice is appreciated.

38mess, oh I'm not doubting Penarth Marina, it's just outta my budget. I'm more or less equidistant from swansea and cardiff (as the car travels), though Milford is certainly further so yeah I'll take that point and make the alterations to my spreadsheet. After adding this to my spreadsheet (and including Chepstow) it actually seems like Swansea will be cheaper for me at least for the first year (pontoon wise) or CYC depending on whether I get a tender asap. (As Chepstow won't take the boat , but if the right boat comes along and I pop the figures in, it'll definitely be considered.)

It would be wise to check the max Loa that yacht clubs allow. I think 36f rings a bell.

 

[NotBirdseye]

It would be wise to check the max Loa that yacht clubs allow. I think 36f rings a bell.

I can't find any blanket limit with SYSAC but I've been reliably informed there is a limit for Chepstow, I'll make sure to keep an eye out in future research.

Thanks all for your help.

 

[Allan]

I can't find any blanket limit with SYSAC but I've been reliably informed there is a limit for Chepstow, I'll make sure to keep an eye out in future research.

Thanks all for your help.

CYC used to have a limit of 36feet but I believe it's been increased to at least 38feet. There may be some extra stipulations for vessels over 36feet.
Allan

 

[Dutch01527]

.

Dutch, I have no issues with buying the berth, capital costs I can deal with, on going costs take some budgeting for. That said I had no idea they were refundable........CYC depending on whether I get a tender asap. [/QUOTE]

Thanks, you only need to “buy” the pontoon berth at CYC. A mooring bouy costs c.£250 a year plus club membership with no capital cost. The tender should not be an issue, it is only 50 to 100 yards. No need for anything fancy. Probably free or less than £100. Even boats with a good inflatable onboard have a second tender, usually old but solid grp boat, to get to and from the mooring so that they do not have to inflate / deflate before a trip. These tenders are kept in the water on a pontoon. I paid for a pontoon berth but the mooring boy option probably must be one of the cheapest all tide, full facilities choices on the upper Bristol Channel.

That said if I lived reasonably close to Swansea I would base my boat in Milford Haven (probably Dale). Much better day or weekend cruising base. The upper channel is very limited by tides and restricted access to just about everywhere. Swansea is tide / opening hours limited as well.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Hm, I can't seem to find anything about a limit at CYC, it simply says x amount up until 25ft then x amount for every foot thereafter. I'll follow up with an extra check if I start looking at boats that size (budget depending of course). Especially as CYC looks to be a reasonably good deal (not as good as Swansea but that might change). Milford however is a touch on the expensive side (due to it's location I'm not surprised) and as far as Dale is concerned, I can't seem to figure out how much they are actually charging (and I don't wanna ask directly as I'd be wasting their time).

The restrictions on the tides doesn't matter for me, provided there's at least one tide every 24hrs, I can manage the rest.

Note: CYC have a Single Membership Fee and a Mooring Fee (I'm assuming berth maintenance doesn't apply to Trot moorings), for me that would work out at about £525 per annum. The pontoon something like £3,000 (to be expected). It's a bit far north of my budget range for the first year (Joining fee and such included) XD.

Thanks everyone for that additional information and the prod to re-check. Honestly I wish some of the Yacht Clubs would be clearer with their prices!

 

[The Dogs Pollacks Brother]

I had a 21ft Colvic on a mooring at Dale, and if I recall correctly we paid about £110 per season, which is only the 6 months of the summer, then we had to berth it up in Milford Haven. Not sure if that was the correct price as we first had the mooring for a smaller boat that we bought of a club member who "knew someone" in the club as it were. ..We are now up in Neyland, upper bason, and pay roughly £1000 for 12 months on a 17ft boat.

 

[Graham_Wright]

CYC used to have a limit of 36feet but I believe it's been increased to at least 38feet. There may be some extra stipulations for vessels over 36feet.
Allan

CDYC reluctantly declined my application for a 33 foot boat.

 

[steveej]

If you are budgeting ongoing costs then you need to take step back and look at the big picture. I am assuming the 40ft boat will not be new due to your comments on the tender....

1. First is the cost of the boat (which is a small part of the total overall costs over say a 5 - 10 year ownership period)
2. Then you have the cost of immediate refit - i.e. fixing all the broken stuff to make it seaworthy, replacing missing safety gear etc
3. You then have the costs of parking it somewhere.
4. The cost of ongoing maintenance (not just bottom paint once a year, but the cost of hauling out, pressure wash, chocking and shoring up, haul in - these can all add a significant sum to the annual maintenance especially in the commercial marinas that charge all sorts of extras).
5. The cost of all the ancillary gear to make the boat operational - charts, oilies, tender, outboard, all the stuff to sort the caravanning side of it (pots, pans, cuttlery etc) the list goes on.

If you have limited experience of ownership, I would suggest looking at younger boats that are beamier but with a shorter LOA so that you have better space but hopefully avoid to much of points 2, 3 and 4. Almost everything is charged based on the LOA and a large and old knackered boat could easily bankrupt you with the cost of repairs and replacement (i.e. point 2 above). I have seen this happen many times when people fall in love with the dream but do not understand what they are really getting themselves into. The tears when the yard boss tells them its 40k to replace the teak deck when they only paid 50k for the boat!

If you are half way between Cardiff and Swansea then choose one of those. Cardiff has 24hr access but is still restricted heading west as you have to deal with the tidal gate at Lavernock point. Swansea is time restricted access but you start your sail from further west so it opens up the western end of the channel for weekend cruising. Either will be fine for a few seasons and if you get board you can then move to Milford even if it is only for the summer whilst keeping a cheap club mooring in Cardiff for the winter which will allow easier access to the boat for routine maintenance. The problem with keeping it permanently in Milford is having to drive down there every other weekend during the winter months to sort all the routine maintenance, air the boat etc.

If you are in south wales I would avoid Portishead (too restricted weekend cruising), certainly not Watchet as it is too long a drive. I live in Bristol and choose Cardiff.

Swansea Sub Aqua club looked good when I went to view a boat for sale there so I would be looking at that more closely, otherwise one of the clubs in Cardiff.

This is not the solent and water taxis are few and far between so you will need a tender and an outboard is pretty well essential in my book as well if you actually want go cruising for the weekend.

Hope this helps.

 

[NotBirdseye]

If you are budgeting ongoing costs then you need to take step back and look at the big picture. I am assuming the 40ft boat will not be new due to your comments on the tender....

1. First is the cost of the boat (which is a small part of the total overall costs over say a 5 - 10 year ownership period)
2. Then you have the cost of immediate refit - i.e. fixing all the broken stuff to make it seaworthy, replacing missing safety gear etc
3. You then have the costs of parking it somewhere.
4. The cost of ongoing maintenance (not just bottom paint once a year, but the cost of hauling out, pressure wash, chocking and shoring up, haul in - these can all add a significant sum to the annual maintenance especially in the commercial marinas that charge all sorts of extras).
5. The cost of all the ancillary gear to make the boat operational - charts, oilies, tender, outboard, all the stuff to sort the caravanning side of it (pots, pans, cuttlery etc) the list goes on.

Note: Resale value is not important to me, I generally use stuff until it's only remaining use is scrapping (I've budgeted that cost too).

Large post so I won't quote it all!

1. The cost of the boat is something I am considering, I'm not at the stage where I have the budget or the skills (but both will be obtained in due course, I also have a few options that are opening up to me recently that may make the whole process much cheaper).
2. I'm keeping the cost of an immediate refit in mind, but I'm not buying a boat that isn't seaworthy. If the survey says: Nuh, this won't go to see as it stands, it'll sink... then I'm not buying it. As a first boat a 'project' is not what I have in mind and yes I'm aware that I'll need to add a premium to my capital budget to achieve that.
3. That's something I've contemplated and have an outline budget for including potential inflation. Though granted only for the first year as after that if available I plan to make use of cheaper options.
4. Some of this I have in mind and I'm working on understanding, but obviously, it can be as expensive as you want to make it. Aside from seasonal maintenance, that boat will be staying in the water all year. Not sure what you mean by chocking.
5. Again you can make this as expensive or not as you please. So far all the sailors I've actually met, don't actually use oilies for general sailing and the same goes for some of the sailing blogs (How to Sail Oceans case in point). Allegedly some of those items are quite cheap (cheaper than I had been budgeting for) and Caravan/Camping is something I know how to do! .

Still fair points and worth pointing out. (I'll be coming back to this thread a few times to review all the points given as progress is made).

The tip re which boat type to go for is a point worth taking, though I suspect the budget will largely dictate depending on what is available. Your point about teak is also well taken, some people like teak, I'm not so fussed and if I can find a suitable boat without I'll certainly consider it. My aim is to 'Go sailing' not "look at me don't I have a pretty boat". (Actually none of the boats I've been looking at have a teak deck of any kind not even in the cockpit XD).

Portishead is also stupidly expensive! Swansea Sub Aqua Club is also pretty good on the price (at least for what I'm looking at) however there may be restrictions I can't find on boat length :/. Shall see.

As for an outboard, I can row or I can learn to scull >_>. Too many horror stories of outboards being stolen for my liking...and I dun like engines at the best of times. Noisy smelly things.

Your post is very helpful and thought out, it is also very much appreciated there are some things I may very well have to give more weight to as well, as progress is made.