Mooring buoy and chain question

[Boo2]

Hi,

I am taking up a swinging mooring at Langstone this year and have been told that the harbour will provide the main buoy and riser etc but that all there will be to moor to is a swivel at the top of the buoy and a shackle connected to it. From reading around here it seems to be preferred to have a pickup buoy with chain between it and the main buoy swivel.

Boat is a UFO 34 and I need to know what size chain and pickup buoy I should buy ? My boat has a foredeck cleat, is it OK to use this to wind the chain around, or is there another preferred method ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[sailorman]

On the East Coast a rope strop 25m/m nylon / Nelson with an eye splice worked into it + a light line from the eye to a pick-up By is the norm. No nasty chain to damage yer topsides or cleats

 

[fireball]

There was a thread on here about what to use for moorings in Chichester Harbour - some good advice in there - including a link to the conservancy's guide (including photos of some of the boats mooring at my club)

 

[JumbleDuck]

My professionally maintained but personally owned mooring has a ruddy great plaited strop - 24mm, at a guess - with an eye at the business end. I have a samson post, so I drop it over that and then tie it up so it can't escape over the horns. I can't see any great advantages for chain at that point. With a tube round the strop there is no chafe, the rope is amply strong and it doesn't rust.

 

[vyv_cox]

When I had a mooring on the Menai Strait everybody was required to have a 1/2 inch galvanised pickup chain. We had the same size on 27, 29 and 35 ft boats. In our case the chain was 2 metres long with a light line about 10 or 12 mm slightly longer attached to a small pickup buoy. The chain then hung down but did not submerge the buoy. Our chain was sleeved inside a length of retired firefighting hose to reduce hull damage. This was a very exposed location and may be assumed to be the most durable method. In more sheltered places something less would be acceptable and many places have their own rules.

 

[VicS]

Hi,

I am taking up a swinging mooring at Langstone this year and have been told that the harbour will provide the main buoy and riser etc but that all there will be to moor to is a swivel at the top of the buoy and a shackle connected to it. From reading around here it seems to be preferred to have a pickup buoy with chain between it and the main buoy swivel.

Boat is a UFO 34 and I need to know what size chain and pickup buoy I should buy ? My boat has a foredeck cleat, is it OK to use this to wind the chain around, or is there another preferred method ?

Thanks,

Boo2

3/8" (10mm) chain will be suitable. In an exposed location consider 1/2" chain, but check it will fit your bow roller OK. There would be no point in fitting heavier chain than the riser though.

Check the swivel and shackle to be sure what will fit and what additional shackle (if any) you will need. Don't add shackles unnecessarily though.

I would form a loop in the chain end by using a shackle ( that is what Chichester Harbour do ) just large enough to drop easily over the deck cleat. Ordinary deck cleats are nor designed for chain to be wound round them like rope.
It is a good idea to lash the mooring chain to the bow roller so that it cannot jump off.

From the Chichester mooring guide :

Minimising the swinging circle is an important
consideration. The length of the mooring top chain
between the deck fairlead and the buoy should be as
short as possible. This also ensures that the weight of the
boat is directly linked to the riser and limits the amount of
snatch to the boat deck fittings.

An excessively long top chain will also
cause the buoy to rub alongside the
hull of the boat and scuff the gel coat
or varnish. This is often observed and
can be reduced by using the correct
length of top chain as previously
described.

 

[NormanS]

Hi,

I am taking up a swinging mooring at Langstone this year and have been told that the harbour will provide the main buoy and riser etc but that all there will be to moor to is a swivel at the top of the buoy and a shackle connected to it. From reading around here it seems to be preferred to have a pickup buoy with chain between it and the main buoy swivel.

Boat is a UFO 34 and I need to know what size chain and pickup buoy I should buy ? My boat has a foredeck cleat, is it OK to use this to wind the chain around, or is there another preferred method ?

Thanks,

Boo2

I would find out what others do in the same place, and do similar. Personally, I have an immensely heavy rope strop, protected with fire hose, which comes over the bow roller. It is then connected to the two bow cleats with two short lighter strops, a green one and a red one, as the lengths have to be slightly different.

If I was bringing chain aboard, I wouldn't "wind it round the cleat", but using a shackle, would happily form an eye in it which could then be dropped onto the cleat.

 

[Boo2]

When I had a mooring on the Menai Strait everybody was required to have a 1/2 inch galvanised pickup chain. We had the same size on 27, 29 and 35 ft boats. In our case the chain was 2 metres long with a light line about 10 or 12 mm slightly longer attached to a small pickup buoy.

The idea of a line from the end of the pickup chain to the pickup buoy is a good one.

3/8" (10mm) chain will be suitable. In an exposed location consider 1/2" chain, but check it will fit your bow roller OK.

Can I ask you both why the pickup chain needs to be so big ? I intend to buy 8mm chain for my anchor rode and naively would have thought if it is strong enough to anchor by then is should be strong enough to moor by, no ?

I would form a loop in the chain end by using a shackle ( that is what Chichester Harbour do ) just large enough to drop easily over the deck cleat. Ordinary deck cleats are nor designed for chain to be wound round them like rope.
It is a good idea to lash the mooring chain to the bow roller so that it cannot jump off.

Thanks for these good ideas.

To those who have posted re the Chi moorings guide, I had seen that and it was what inspired my post. I can also see the attractions of a substantial rope bridle as opposed to chain but have heard that if a boat goes ashore at Langstone it is likely to be stripped by dawn and also that there can be a nasty chop in a Northerly wind so for that reason prefer chain. I will get hold of some hose from somewhere to protect the topsides etc.

As for shackles, I suppose stainless ones will be less likely to rust up and sieze when I'm away from the boat, but do I need a thickness the same as the thickness of the chain wire or what ?

Thanks for all the replies,

Boo2

 

[sailorman]

The idea of a line from the end of the pickup chain to the pickup buoy is a good one.



Can I ask you both why the pickup chain needs to be so big ? I intend to buy 8mm chain for my anchor rode and naively would have thought if it is strong enough to anchor by then is should be strong enough to moor by, no ?


Thanks for these good ideas.

To those who have posted re the Chi moorings guide, I had seen that and it was what inspired my post. I can also see the attractions of a substantial rope bridle as opposed to chain but have heard that if a boat goes ashore at Langstone it is likely to be stripped by dawn and also that there can be a nasty chop in a Northerly wind so for that reason prefer chain. I will get hold of some hose from somewhere to protect the topsides etc.

As for shackles, I suppose stainless ones will be less likely to rust up and sieze when I'm away from the boat, but do I need a thickness the same as the thickness of the chain wire or what ?

Thanks for all the replies,

Boo2

How many of those were left unattended over the winter

 

[vyv_cox]

8 mm is not sufficient for a mooring. Corrosive wear is your enemy on a chain that is in constant motion. I know of a 12 mm mooring chain that wore right through in one winter in a very exposed location.

 

[Boo2]

How many of those were left unattended over the winter

Well there's a fair chance that Sunrunner will be too if it comes to that : Brighton to Langstone is an hour and a half by car and I don't suppose I will much fancy it when the days are only 8 hours long and it's raining stair-rods...

Boo2

 

[Boo2]

8 mm is not sufficient for a mooring. Corrosive wear is your enemy on a chain that is in constant motion. I know of a 12 mm mooring chain that wore right through in one winter in a very exposed location.

OK, thanks, I will go for the heavier chain. 2m or so won't break the bank anyway.

Boo2

 

[doug748]

I have had a swinging mooring for a long time and have tried every combination of hawser and chain both singled and doubled up, with and without snubbers. I have no firm recommendations, so maybe it does not much matter, as long as you are not silly. Some points tho:

If the buoy really does come with a good swivel on the top you are blessed because it should not wind up the strop and you can leave the boat with two strops if you so wish.

You can run the chain in a push bike inner tube for adequate protection - esp if your chain is used for back up.

As suggested, I have learnt to haul the buoy up short.

Should you wish to, It is possible to link a snubber into your chain, running the lot inside a fire hose.

Lighter weight rope strops can get badly tangled with themselves and the buoy. Chain generally hangs free.

 

[prv]

The idea of a line from the end of the pickup chain to the pickup buoy is a good one.

Is there any other way?

if it is strong enough to anchor by then is should be strong enough to moor by, no ?

Liveaboards are a bit different (and tend to have larger chains) but a typical cruiser is unlikely to anchor in conditions she will regularly see at her mooring. She will also spend far longer at the mooring wearing things away. And finally, unless you hook an old ground chain, an anchor will probably drag before you exceed the 4-tonne limit of the chain anyway.

As for shackles, I suppose stainless ones will be less likely to rust up and sieze when I'm away from the boat

Seizing up is probably desirable, isn't it? Certainly preferable to coming undone . My big galvanised shackles on the pontoon lines are deliberately not greased, and dipped in seawater before doing up so that they rust a bit and won't come undone easily. Although since yours will be a single point of failure (whereas I have four in summer and six in winter) you should be mousing it explicitly rather than relying on a bit of rust in the threads.

but do I need a thickness the same as the thickness of the chain wire or what ?

Logically I suppose you want one as strong as the chain or stronger - but it's quite likely that won't actually fit through the links! So go for the biggest one that will fit. Stainless is generally stronger than galvanised which I guess answers the previous question from another direction

Pete

 

[Dipper]

Some good advice here. My club has around 100 swinging moorings in Portland Harbour and I help with the annual inspection/replacement.

You need 12mm chain. The chain will be constantly dipped in seawater which will be well oxygenated so it's much more likely to corrode than anchor chain. Loss of 20% of the diameter through corrosion would normally require replacement. If the support buoy is heavy, then there can be quite considerable snatching in rough weather.

If you can get a ring welded in the end of the chain you can then reeve the chain through itself to form the loop to attach to the support buoy thereby removing the need for a shackle. Otherwise use tested shackles. Perhaps slightly counterintuitive, greasing the thread well is advised as it is usually the thread that corrodes and fails first. Then mouse well. Don't use stainless steel shackles or s/s mousing wire on moorings.

Finally, don't forget to check the security of your mooring cleat. In particular, does it have a strong backing pad glassed in below. There's no point in having a good mooring if your deck cleat gets ripped out of the boat. I had to beef up mine and I'm glad I did.

My club has a very good guide here if you are interested. http://www.ccsc.org.uk/move/moorings.pdf

 

[fireball]

well - like Jumbleduck - we used a 24mm 3 strand strop as the main connection. I backed that up with an 8mm chain ... didn't have a problem in over 10 years, but then it spent the majority of the time on the strop - I did pickup the chain first a couple of times - so it did get tested, but not under any major strain.

 

[William_H]

I would advocate OP use 2 rope strops from the provided buoy. Use a rope as large as is appropriate for the size of the mooring cleat. Take the other rope as a backup to some strong point on deck. Anchor winch pulpit base or even to the mast. Do use something to minimise chafe. Preferably soft cloth or canvas. Not plastic tubing. Or fit fairleads.
Use a nylon or polypropelene type rope which floats and has lots of stretch. I tie my dinghy to the strops when I go for a sail using a long painter. It gives a good long target to pick up the mooring when returning. Good for when under sail only. good luck olewill

 

[vyv_cox]

but a typical cruiser is unlikely to anchor in conditions she will regularly see at her mooring.

I well remember going out to the boat in the hope of sailing to the North Atlantic Fleet review that took place off Moelfre in 1994(?). We stood on the Anglesey shore and watched the boat in winds later reported as being Force 11, against a strong flood tide. A good test for any mooring.

 

[VicS]

Use a nylon or polypropelene type rope which floats and has lots of stretch.
good luck olewill

Nylon (polyamide) is the stretchy one, but it does not float

Polypropylene floats but is weaker than Nylon or Terylene (polyester) it is also very susceptible to damage by UV light.

There is lots of useful info and selection guides for ropes on Jimmy Green Marine's website.

https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/

 

[fireball]

I tie my dinghy to the strops when I go for a sail using a long painter. It gives a good long target to pick up the mooring when returning.

I tied the dinghy to the mooring buoy and laid the strops in the boat - made it easy to see and pickup the strops - plus on pickup they were generally dry ... (unless it had been raining) ...