Mooring bridle made of chain!

Zagato

Zagato

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I have an IF Boat (26' long 2400KG) with a bow roller to the side specifically for the Bruce anchor. I cannot weld another bow roller on as the mooring chain would foul the anchor. The anchor bow roller is too weak to use for mooring If I take the anchor off (it will need a snubber to use for actual anchoring, as it is quite a long structure. I cannot upload pictures unfortunately but the leverage has already pulled and cracked one side of the deck whilst anchoring by the previous owner. Not a great bespoke design.

One option is to use a bridle for mooring but I would be concerned about just using rope even with some sort of hose protection. Has anybody used chain with protection and can you make a protecting cover for the bow/hull from the bridle. Itchenor Reach in Chichester Harbour can get serious loads tugging and banging down on bow rollers from passing motor boats and RIBs to the point I have seen them bent and even ripped out. My own quite heavy duty bow roller on one of my last boats was bent out of shape with welds pulled out from the passing wash of powered Marina dwellers!! The roller was almost flush with the bow so no leverage involved either. The key to all this Is perhaps not the rope or chain but whatever is protecting it from chaffing. Experienced advice greatly appreciated. Thanks. Oh and no amount of springs and rubber gizmos dampens the force on the moorings... I am probably going to try Bosham mooring next year as they don,t have the motorised traffic that Itchenor Reach has.... why they don,t slow down or look at the trail of destruction behind them even with the 40footers donkeying up and down, yanking on their chains...
 
I've only ever used rope bridles (on mooring in the GareLoch (Clyde) which was passed by Navy subs and their various escorts on a reg;la basis. The tugs in particular gave a huge amount of heave. You might want to speak to Ardfern Marina (West Coast) who use chain on their mooring buoys - I'm sure they'd be happy to give you some advice.
 
Personally I'd use very large rope which will be stronger than chain, but I don't see why a suitable cover couldn't be made. I'd probably start with hose to make it round (so that the edges of the links aren't wearing on one small piece of the padding) then apply padding - maybe old carpet? - and then a fabric outer cover. Keep plenty of leftover material as it will need regular replacement.

Pete
 
Hi Pete, long time, no see...
Thanks Stooriefit.

Firemans hose is apparently the best to stop chaffing. This article by Vyv Cox explains further how to stop chaffing... I think by just having rope spliced to chain at the shackle mooring boy end and attached to a cleat one side of the boat to stop sawing.
How to avoid chafe on swinging moorings - Yachting Monthly

Other advice is to have two separate lines. Thread one end through the splice loop through the mooring shackle and lead it to your cleat, do the same for the other side, so no sawing action.
 
Itchenor Reach .... know it well ... and the idiots that think its the Nurburgrin straight !

Chain .... OK ... mm link size to rope diameter mm is stronger ... but you have a design problem in the links will soon chafe / damage any cover and very soon your deck.

I personally would go for a reasonable rope solution to be lighter ... less abrasive and damaging. Placing 'garden hose' over the rope as a cover to protect your deck will last longer than if over chain.
You will likely have to replace the 'hose' at intervals as it works. The deck if not with a decent fairlead is going to suffer ....

Do you have mooring fairleads either side of bow ? If so - they are your answer. With back up maybe over a roller.

I assume when you say IF ... you mean International Folkboat as against the usual Folkboat (The Folkboat name encompasses a number of versions .. ). Int Folboat ... very nice - you have my appreciation. Of course the matter that will determine where you eventually moor is the keel !
 
Yes Refueler an IF Boat, thanks. I have one cleat and fair leads either side.

The Swedish govt didn,t allow the boat to be called an International Folkboat in Europe as they already had a Folkboat (but it was allowed to be named as such, and is known as such in America for instance) so it had to be called an IF Boat. TOrd Sunden who created the Nordic Folkboat (that is original Folkboat) also designed the IF Boat, improved it of course... wink!!

This from Chichester Harbour Conservancy... YIKES, page four, that would chaff through in no time...
https://www.conservancy.co.uk/asset...de_to_Using_a_Swinging_Mooring-kC20QhVjdT.pdf
 
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Folkboats ...

25ft Brabourne Marine Cruising version : Built to the specs of the Scandinavian Yacht Racing Uinion.

25ft Shepherds Marine version : To comply with the requirements of the Folkboat Association of Great Britain.

25ft Common Cruising Folkboat, Scandinavia Designer, distributed UK in 60 .. 70's by City Centre Boatyard : Built in UK by various independent yards but also by German builders. This is strip planked instead of clinker. This is one of the most common FB's to be seen.

25ft Polish built / designed Cruising Folkboat distributed in UK by Tubornet, traditional clinker. Carvel was offered to order.

These are just the ones seen most in UK and from my 1968 archive !! ... there are others of course.
 
Yes there have been many derivatives since the forties... The IF Boat was actually designed as early as 1964 by Tord Sunden when he was commissioned by Marieholm to do so. The first one was delivered in 1967 and was in a Swedish museum. Production went on to 1984, other yards for example in Australia made them so exact figures range from 3500-4000 built and you can still buy a new one today. Tord Sunden who created the original Nordic Folkboat from the Swedish Govts design competition submissions as you know, improved on the original by making it better in light airs, a more attractive sheer, better accommodation etc. Nice little boat and GRP which is a must for me, I don't have the time or motivation for wood, lovely as they are. It will do me anyway if I can sort out a mooring arrangement to bring the thread back on track!
 
The answer has to involve a bridle, with the two parts led over the bows P&S and then to your foredeck cleat-fitting. Do be certain THAT fitting is way robust enough. Some ain't....

The question of chafe is perennial. There's no point in using chain, for it will cut through any 'antichafe' material you fit, then attack your bow toerails. That'l be expensive.
It may well be that the mooring fairleads fitted P&S are not substantial enough for the job. Many were only just enough for light lines in a sheltered marina. If that's the case, then replacing them with something big enough, and through-bolted into hefty backing pads, is a major part of the answer. That's what I needed to do on a Cutlass27, a Folkboat derivative.
You may also consider fastening 'chafing plates' in thin s/s curved over your toerails wherever the mooring lines are likely to touch. These can be bought in chandlers, of course, but homemade costs about one-twentieth.....

The mooring lines need to be very robust. Consider 18mm as the absolute minimum, and 24/25mm a much better option. I've used Polysteel from a commercial source. You might find what you want at Southern Ropes... if you speak Souf Effrikan.

Antichafe material is a consumable. I've sourced mine from lengths of time-expired flat fire hose tube. A 1-metre length per 'boat rope', with a hole punched near each end and a short line tied on, to secure the tube to your rope.....

These lengths of fire hose are so cheap and easy that I carry up to half-a-dozen, and they seem to migrate at night, for I find them in all sorts of strange places - like friends' boats! :D
 
GRP .. so she is a late version .............

Anyway ... I would think a combo of quieter mooring (hopefully saving some money as well) .. a rope bridle using the fairleads and a backup line via roller.
 
Zagato said:
Tord Sunden who created the original Nordic Folkboat from the Swedish Govts design competition submissions as you know, improved on the original by making it better in light airs, a more attractive sheer, better accommodation etc.
Click to expand...
Lovely boat, but the Swedish government had more urgent matters to deal with in 1941. The completion was arranged by the Union of Scandinavian sailors...
 
I've always used rope. Has some 'give', doesn't rust, doesn't scrape and scratch the hull, lighter to pick up...
As always with moorings, look around and see what everyone else is using- they probably have good reasons for their choices.

FWIW my method is to use the biggest rope that will fit the roller, with chafe protection. On my boat, that is 32mm. I use commercial Sea-Steel multiplait. I don't like to rely on three-strand because it could conceivably unwind itself. For chafe protection, I use reinforced see-through PVC tubing.
Normally I get two years out of this setup before UV damage sets in and the PVC tube splits. The rope itself is generally fine, but will start to wear once exposed.
This year, I added some layflat PVC hose over the top as UV protection- it will be interesting to see if this works.
 
Zagato said:
I have an IF Boat (26' long 2400KG) with a bow roller to the side specifically for the Bruce anchor. I cannot weld another bow roller on as the mooring chain would foul the anchor. The anchor bow roller is too weak to use for mooring If I take the anchor off (it will need a snubber to use for actual anchoring, as it is quite a long structure. I cannot upload pictures unfortunately but the leverage has already pulled and cracked one side of the deck whilst anchoring by the previous owner. Not a great bespoke design.
....
Click to expand...
This doesn't sound right.
The bow fitting-forestay attachment set up needs to be about the strongest single part of the yacht. These parts are not normally weak on boats similar to yours. Forget bridles and complication, get this fitting properly engineered, stow the anchor below and moor with a nice stout rope straight over the bow to a nice stout cleat or samson post. Or use a simple straight chain. That won't chafe much, because there is no movement under load.

There are a few people about with 'traditional' racing boats who seem to not be concerned with anchoring other than in no wind, or using a swinging mooring.
I sailed on a scandinavian dayboat which had a very shiny little brass fitting at the bow for a kedge anchor when the wind died. I think some boats even remove the bow roller while racing? The forestay was some way back from the pointy end (which was, very, very pointy!).
That's fine if you want to dry sail regattas or use marinas. But on a mid harbour swinging mooring full time, you can't have anything that's not solid and totally dependable.
 
Kelpie said:
I've always used rope. Has some 'give', doesn't rust, doesn't scrape and scratch the hull, lighter to pick up...
As always with moorings, look around and see what everyone else is using- they probably have good reasons for their choices.

FWIW my method is to use the biggest rope that will fit the roller, with chafe protection. On my boat, that is 32mm. I use commercial Sea-Steel multiplait. I don't like to rely on three-strand because it could conceivably unwind itself. For chafe protection, I use reinforced see-through PVC tubing.
Normally I get two years out of this setup before UV damage sets in and the PVC tube splits. The rope itself is generally fine, but will start to wear once exposed.
This year, I added some layflat PVC hose over the top as UV protection- it will be interesting to see if this works.
Click to expand...

+1 certainly use multi plait rope, more difficult to splice but will last better. if one strand goes, you still have 7 to hold you rather than 2. With a bridle, you double the amount that you have as a connection.
 
lw395 said:
This doesn't sound right.
The bow fitting-forestay attachment set up needs to be about the strongest single part of the yacht. These parts are not normally weak on boats similar to yours. Forget bridles and complication, get this fitting properly engineered, stow the anchor below and moor with a nice stout rope straight over the bow to a nice stout cleat or samson post. Or use a simple straight chain. That won't chafe much, because there is no movement under load.

There are a few people about with 'traditional' racing boats who seem to not be concerned with anchoring other than in no wind, or using a swinging mooring.
I sailed on a scandinavian dayboat which had a very shiny little brass fitting at the bow for a kedge anchor when the wind died. I think some boats even remove the bow roller while racing? The forestay was some way back from the pointy end (which was, very, very pointy!).
That's fine if you want to dry sail regattas or use marinas. But on a mid harbour swinging mooring full time, you can't have anything that's not solid and totally dependable.
Click to expand...

Yes it is very unusual for an IF Boat to have such a set up. They don,t even have a chain locker let alone a windlass. Quite a few IF Boat owners have expressed a desire to have the same set up due to the fact, as they have recently explained in their country they tend to moor onto a pontoon in front with a buoy behind so no problem. The pushpit on IF Boats is even designed so you can step through from the bow onto the pontoon. The recent owner was elderly and used a marina both so it worked for him fine, although I still believe the offset actual anchor bow roller to be weak as there's is so much leverage, so I need to check it all out. It maybe ok for anchoring in normal wave action but not the serious tugging/slamming forces you get from passing mobos in Itchenor Reach!! Fortunately I am not launching her until next year and she is 4 hours away from me at the moment so cannot look at anything properly... or at all! I have to say I like simplicity and am not keen on the electric windlass but the fact that he has made a chain locker is a great advantage, I am sure it will work out once I get it sorted. I am very glad he put so much effort into her, 5 year old Beta engine, sails, windlass, teak interior etc etc. Shame I cannot get pictures up, too big on IPad, need an app to reduce the size and photobucket continues to be a PITA. Haven't the time to sort a new picture host before folks offer alternatives. If you go on the Facebook Marieholm Owners IF and 26 site you will see pics of her and the bow roller issue. Herè... https://www.facebook.com/groups/225226329960/
 
The facebook picture makes the problem much clearer.
I think if you are serious about anchoring and swinging moorings, it would be good to consider the whole problem.
Is there an equally good or better anchor which would fit the bow better?
Then design the pulpit base, bow capping, anchor roller and maybe even fairleads as an assembly that can be made amply strong.
What you have shows good intentions but I don't think it's necessary to have so much clearance between anchor and bow, and I do think it's essential to retain the anchor rode or mooring pennant on the bow roller with a pin over it or similar.
 
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