Moody Keel Options

Pasarell said:
Vic, I would be very surprised if you weight is 16 tonnes. Mine is 10.5 tonnes dry weight.

Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter
Yea I agre I just confuse why it say on the builders cit estimated tons 16.6 but as Duncan say it be the register tonnage .
Peter why I got you , Jordenbasset will be berth in your Marina this winter , his bring some stuff back with him , if I don't get back to the Ionian before he return back for the winter , could he leave them with you and I pick them up on the way to Tunisia ?
It maybe as late as November, but hoping to be back before he goes back ?
 
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Okay, thanks everyone, at least now I know what sort of keel the shoal draft is and how it is likely to perform.

Now I just need to decide if I’m up for a refit or not!
 
Tranona said:
The loss is in the depth and leading edge of the keel as a foil and a greater chord which might affect pointing ability.
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The 376 in common with many boats of that era has a much greater wetted area and a skeg hung rudder rudder which, along with the longer keel, keeps it pointing like it's on rails when reefed down hard on the wind. Modern designs with high aspect keels, flatter bottoms and spade rudders are obviously more performance oriented but I doubt they will hold a course as well and as comfortably with minimum crew effort in lively conditions.
 
Crisby said:
Hi Richard, I thought the scheel keel had winglets but having just googled it the first picture that came up looked just like the ones we have seen on the M42s.

Was the upwind performance dire or just poor and did the boat roll much? I appreciate the hulls were different and, like I say I expect some compromises, just checking what I’m letting myself in for!

Thanks again
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I don't recall any concerns about rolling. (Glasson Dock to Malta and back between 2006 and 2009).

My recollection of upwind performance is that, when it mattered, and in any kind of sea, it was dire, and we would generally start the engine to make headway, or wait for a wind change if time allowed.

This introduced another issue which is that of slamming into waves at anything like a reasonable speed.

In calm seas, (lee of land, or wind with tide, etc... ), performance to windward was fine.

There is a possibility that the poor performance was due to me, rather than the boat :) However, I had a chance to helm a Grand Soleil in Malta for an hour or two, and the difference to windward was immediately noticeable.

Having said all of that, the people who bought the boat from me in 2010 crossed the Atlantic, spent a few years in the Carribbean, transitted the Panama Canal, and ended up in the Gulf of Mexico, so it was a lovely boat to spend time/live on, so upwind performance could be forgiven.
 
Graham376 said:
The 376 in common with many boats of that era has a much greater wetted area and a skeg hung rudder rudder which, along with the longer keel, keeps it pointing like it's on rails when reefed down hard on the wind. Modern designs with high aspect keels, flatter bottoms and spade rudders are obviously more performance oriented but I doubt they will hold a course as well and as comfortably with minimum crew effort in lively conditions.
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I agree in part, but things have moved on and that distinction is getting blurred. My new boat with the Scheel type keel behave very differently and will sail itself quite easily. Can be balanced, at least in the up to F5 that I have sailed in so far to run true with minimal help from the autopilot

Also the suggestion that all modern boats are performance orientated is as wide of the mark as similar comments 30 years ago. Some are and some are not. Very good article in PBO a couple of months ago explaining the differences using an Elan 344 (cruising) and 340 (racy) as examples. Useful because the designer Rob Humphries gives the explanation. The Bav 33 is similar to the Elan 344.
 
We have a Scheel keel Moody 44. There is some loss of performance to windward compared to similar typical normal keeled boats, perhaps 6-8 degrees, though this may also be due to our ancient sails. I don't think the motion is affected, and it's centre cockpit too, so that would be noticed. I regularly sail (slightly smaller) Beneteaus and Dufours of various sizes (for work), and the motion in the Moody is much more comfortable. I assume that's due to heavier displacement and higher ballast ratio and maybe hull profile - and that applies to all points of sail. Almost no slam to windward for example. (Yes I would say that, but then that was my eyes wide open choice). Tracking marginally better too. The performance is weaker in sub F4 wind, and conversely better in windier conditions. Also going astern for med style stern-to's is trickier with a skeg. But in F6 / F7 and big seas we can keep piling through the miles with ease. Downwind the performance is strong - yes it rolls but nearly all monohull boats do on downwind ocean passages and ours is better motion wise than many (deep or standard keel) boats I've sailed. Our ocean passage times are decent (eg Gib - Canaries - Cape Verde 5 days each, and Cape Verde - Barbados 13 days). This was concurrent with last years ARC but with generally much better passage times - google some ARC results. No doubt we were helped by good wind being further south, but the point I think holds that our times are decent without any special effort (short crewed, heavily loaded, with kids and old sails).

Advantages of the Scheel keel are obvious - more choice of where to anchor in terms of creeks, mangroves, near the beach, town, etc and amongst the cats, plus it opens up some cruising grounds, canals, rivers and marina spots. As usual it's horses for courses.
 
Siwhi, thank you very much for your reply, it definitely helps with our decision making, we started off with bilge keelers and I always said that the next boat would be a fin keel, hence my hesitation with the scheel keel.

Trnnona, thenks for the information about the scheel keel in general, I didn’t realise that it was so widely used.

Chris
 
For clarity, the slamming that I experienced was when our course was upwind, in a sea, and we used the engine to head directly at the destination. When sailing and pointing in a sea, there would be little/no slamming, but I was never satisfied with course made good.

Given that most of the time was spent cruising, or stationary, heading to windward was rarely necessary, and I think everything else about the boat outweighed it.
 
Thanks Richard, we are certainly less concerned about the shoal draft now than we were,, one of the boats on our shortlist needs new sails so maybe that might help a little with pointing

Chris
 
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