Moody Eclipse 33 or Westerly Riviera

[Jigger]

Hi, Which sails best? Particularly in pleasant sailing conditions, say fc3-4.
It seams to me that most motor sailers are designed to motor when the conditions are nice (when we want to sail) and only have enough sail area to sail when conditions start to get tough (when we may want to retreat inside and put on the motor). I have been racing and cruising for most of my life but the bodies resilience is waining relative to my enthusiasm to sail and the option to sit at a captains armchair to motor home when it gets tough instead of continually ducking behind a spray hood is very appealing.
Needs and practicalities dictate a boat of this size, bilge keels, internal steering position with good visibility and accommodation for extended cruising for two.
We did look at a Jouet 940 motor sailor (bilge keel so I assume a one off) and the design looked like it might sail well, unfortunately we were not so happy with that actual boat.
There are other alternatives but so far I have only found those as Fin, wing, Centre board/swing keel options, or too expensive for our bank balance. So it has come down to two boats the Eclipse or Riviera.

 

[Tranona]

Welcome

When buying boats of this vintage the key thing to look for is condition. as to sailing ability they are both adequate for the job, but again will depend on what sort of sails the boar has and what your expectations are. They were both aimed at the same sort of market but the Eclipse was far more successful in terms of sale. However that might well be because of the look of the Riviera rather than its sailing ability as the hull in other incarnations had a good reputation

Only you can make the decision, but buying either would not be a mistake against your stated requirements.

 

[Manic76]

Out of interest, what was wrong with the Jouet that you looked at?

 

[Jigger]

As tranora says condition at this age is everything.
I was suspicious of the strengthening for the bilge keels on this boat as this seamed to be a one off (though it has lasted for a few decades so it couldn't be too bad). But sometimes you just don't feel happy with a boat and we found her to be neglected and any modifications we found appeared a bit bodged. Even with a deep clean and new cushions it was the type of boat that I wouldn't feel happy with until I had stripped out everywhere to check 'just in case" and rebuilt anything suspect as I wanted it. Noticeable things were a hot water calorifier that had been put in the footwell for the chart table so you couldn’t sit at it and looking under the floorboards random wires loosely strung about. I wasn't happy with what I might call the substance of the boat, the wife though it was a tip.. that was the end of it.
PS Tranore when you say a boar do you mean they are dull or Pigs??

 

[Manic76]

Thanks, it looks like a nice boat from the pics. We actually viewed a Riviera last weekend and felt it was a fantastic boat, fin keel though.

 

[JimC]

OP might also consider a Hunter Horizon 32, AFIK the only pilot house yacht to have won her class in the RTIR. Most/all are twin-keeled

 

[Jigger]

Thanks JimC, Well spotted and its is a definite option regarding performance. I would really like to know how a Riviera or Eclipse performs against a Horizon 32, but layout is a problem. We are pretty fed up with sleeping under the cockpit on a boat with a small ford cabin. So we were looking for a good for'd cabin like the Eclipse or Riviera. Unfortunately every Horizon 32 we have seen has split level bunks for'd. Might be possible to rebuild the for'd cabin but don't really want to take on a project.

 

[Jigger]

manic 76 do you have any idea about the sailing performance of a Riviera. I have never sailed with or had the opportunity to compare these boats sailing.
PS re Jouet 940MS if you like that layout (two aft cabins with heads in the bow like the westerly tempest) the design looks like a good option for a sailable motor sailor but I think I would only be happy with the standard fin keel.

 

[pvb]

PS Tranore when you say a boar do you mean they are dull or Pigs??

I'd guess it was a simple typo for "boat".

 

[Jigger]

Yes, meant to add LOL after the comment.

 

[Manic76]

No idea i am afraid, but suspect it is more than adequate for my skills/ambition

 

[Concerto]

Jigger

Why do you need bilge keels? Boats of this size are normally going to be fin keeled although both were available with twin keels.

On a more personal note, my late parents had an Eclipse 43 and I now have a Westerly Fulmar, so I can honestly say either should suit your needs. They were both built to a very similar standard and it will really come down to personal choice and condition of any for sale. Both should be reasonable to sail, but definitely not sporty. I would expect the Riviera to be a tad faster due to boat length and slightly roomier inside.

There is another boat you might find to add to your list is the Westerly Vulcan. A little bit older, but very spacious for its size.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Having sailed one, it's performance under sail isn't one of its strong points....

 

[Jigger]

Hi Concerto,
Thank for info. I know I cant get exactly what I would really like without building it myself but these are the best compromises that match our needs, I just don't want to buy one and find myself being sailed part by the other. I want the best sailing performance I can find out of whats available.
I have enjoyed many a race but also enjoy creek crawling and most of my previous boats have been drop keel/swing keel. But I think I have had enough of the maintenance and problems associated with those configurations and still want to stop over at places that dry out. Hence the option for bilge keels. I actually think they are under rated with much criticism being aimed at badly designed symmetrical stubs stuck to the bottom of floating caravans. There are a few really well designed bilge keel boats with asymmetric bilge keels and I suppose the keel designs of the boats I am looking at goes a long way towards what I can expect from them.
I believe the Fulmar was a typical example, I believe the designer compensated with more ballast in the bilge keel option and ended up with a boat that under cruising conditions sails as well if not better than the fin. Not the case perhaps with 5 rugby players hanging out on the windward side to keep the boat up into the wind in a race, as a well designed bilge keeler actually needs to lay over to get the leeward asymmetrical keel down. Its a pity Westerly didn't offer a Deck Saloon option for the Fulmar like they did for the Consort it would have been just what I want.

 

[Jigger]

Hi Little Grebe,
You say having sailed 'one'; can I ask which one? and in what kind of conditions?
I think most of these boats are under canvased, it might be tempting to look for one with rubbish sails and re rig her with a bigger stick. The way I see it when it starts getting over a Fc 6 I would be reducing sail to motor sail and head for somewhere nice to eat out for the night.

 

[richardbrennan]

I have sailed on an Eclipse and my memory is that given enough wind it went quite well. The Riviera has the same hull as the Seahawk series, which I have also sailed on and which go surprisingly well. However, the Riviera has a smaller sail area according to the "Westerly Story" book.

 

[ianat182]

Back in the day I used to sail the Eclipse33 on demo sails,and later crewed for a former customer.
The E33 sails very well- not sparkling but that is due to the inmast furling mainsail with a curl in the leec
The example I sailed had tinted wheelhouse windows that I felt didn't give a clear picture of waves in inclement weather ,particularly when heeled to starboard and steering from inside the wheelhouse. The engine was the reliable and adequate Volvo and sailed surprisingly well in light airs.
The swapping from external to internal helm and throttle could be iffy when making the changeover.
Having also sailed her bigger sisters the 38 and the 43, I would prefer the 38 for the extra space in most areas, though of course price comes into the choice then. Both are soundly built, sail well.

ianat182

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Hi Little Grebe,
You say having sailed 'one'; can I ask which one? and in what kind of conditions?
I think most of these boats are under canvased, it might be tempting to look for one with rubbish sails and re rig her with a bigger stick. The way I see it when it starts getting over a Fc 6 I would be reducing sail to motor sail and head for somewhere nice to eat out for the night.

"Fine Bird" which I think has been sold since I was last onboard. Wind conditions would have been a F4.

At the time it would have benefited from TLC which included the sails.

 

[NealB]

"Fine Bird" which I think has been sold since I was last onboard. Wind conditions would have been a F4.

At the time it would have benefited from TLC which included the sails.

I think the question was about which type did you sail: Eclipse 33 or Riviera?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Sorry - Vulcan