Modern sailing clothing - any good?

doug748

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The debate on sailing gear prompted me to check out the kit used in the good ole days.
I have an image of Mallory shinning up Everest with his Norfolk jacket and pipe, and it turns out to be not far from the truth. However this stuff is not to be underestimated:

"The Universities of Lancaster, Southampton, Leeds and Derby combined their expertise to assess the artefacts and clothing found with Mallory's body on Everest. Replica clothing, worn in the tests by Mountaineer Graham Hoyland, proved conclusively that the clothing George Mallory wore for climbing Everest was more than adequate for the elements. Mallory's total clothing weight on Everest in 1924 was 4.160g, compared with the modern equivalent worn by Alan Hinkes, on Everest in 2005 which weighed 4.825g .

Mallory wore a very effective system of layers that allowed freedom of movement. Analysis of Mallory's gear proves that there was nothing about either the clothing or footwear that would have in itself prevented a successful ascent of Everest. In fact the lightweight nature of the clothing was ideally suited and would have given a distinct advantage to Mallory.
And so what did Mallory wear?
WOOL!
In Mallory's case, the wool was interlayered with silk, but this was more for itch-reduction and ease of layering, than for anything else. Graham Hoyland, who wore the Mallory replicas, is quoted as saying
"I immediately found the [woolen] underclothes warm to put on, whereas the modern polypropylene underwear feels cold and clammy….Like most mountaineers, I am used to synthetic outdoor clothing: polypropylene underclothes and outer fleeces …They are unforgiving in stretch, and begin to smell unpleasant if worn for more than a couple of days. There is a harsh synthetic sensation next to your skin."
This, as you might guess, is a bit of a blow to the synthetics industry who fund much of the research, and also fund the annual Clothing for Extremes Conference. Strangely enough, they have gone very silent on the findings of the research! "

Think I will get Dad's old Guernsey out of the shed.
 
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My daughter was required to wear sports clothes to school including chandal and running shoes,although they never actually got a sweat on.I pointed out to her that the three minuite mile was broken by a man running in plimsol, shorts and a string vest.All this colour coded clothing is just another business;a decent long waterproof coat and moleskin triousers and sou wester perfectly alright for the crew whilst your down below especially on bat you stand up on......
 
Merino

Doug

Wool has made a remarkable come back in the last 3 or 4 years. I have been using man made base layers ( including the infamous smelly helly's from the early 1980's) for years for climbing ( winter and summer) skiing and sailing. They work in that they transport sweat away from the skin, don't absorb a lot of moisture and are light. This means they work really well with modern breathable fabrics. The downside is they smell after a couple of days.
I first noticed merino wool thermal base and mid layers from a company called icebreaker ( from NZ) a few years ago in local outdoor shops. They are very expensive - often 2X what an equivalent MM version will cost, but they are more comfortable, finer ( less bulky) and they never seem to smell. I have heard of arctic researchers wearing them for weeks on end with no smell. I can certainly wear the T-shirts they make for weeks with no problems. They have all the functionality that you need to work under breathable fabric so I now only buy this stuff.
No connections other than a very satisfied customer.

I am always amazed to see sailors often wearing completely inappropriate base layers under modern breathable fabrics , and then wondering why they get cold/uncomfortable.

Steve
 
agree with all who point out icebreaker merino stuff is all the rage, and quite pricey. i bought some merino/synth mix thermals from m and s for my mountaineering and they were great.
 
Aldi had merino wool thermals on sale earlier in the year, bought a set, but have only worn them twice in anger, so a bit early for authoritative report.

More comfortable in wear than my poly thermals, seemed to be as warm, with current style of sailing prolonged wear and associated smell problem is not an issue. Washing and drying is an issue, they need more care and definitely take longer to dry.

I've been full circle on this one, when I started all the kit was natural product, in the last few years I have been totally synthetic (and warm).

With fleeces and poly thermals, I have been in situations of total sub-zero immersion, where the drill is to strip, wring the kit out, don and carry on, and they retain a lot of their insulating properties, I'm not so sure that wool is quite the same, and I know that wet down is a disaster.
 
With fleeces and poly thermals, I have been in situations of total sub-zero immersion, where the drill is to strip, wring the kit out, don and carry on, and they retain a lot of their insulating properties, I'm not so sure that wool is quite the same, and I know that wet down is a disaster.

Wet wool will still insulate, not sure of any info comparing directly wet synthetic and merino.
 
Aldi had merino wool thermals on sale earlier in the year, bought a set, but have only worn them twice in anger, so a bit early for authoritative report.

More comfortable in wear than my poly thermals, seemed to be as warm, with current style of sailing prolonged wear and associated smell problem is not an issue. Washing and drying is an issue, they need more care and definitely take longer to dry.

I've been full circle on this one, when I started all the kit was natural product, in the last few years I have been totally synthetic (and warm).

With fleeces and poly thermals, I have been in situations of total sub-zero immersion, where the drill is to strip, wring the kit out, don and carry on, and they retain a lot of their insulating properties, I'm not so sure that wool is quite the same, and I know that wet down is a disaster.
One of the reasons so many are wearing wool again is because it is still unsurpassed by synthetic materials when it comes to insulating when wet.
 
My observations garnered over 43 years of wandering about in cold and wet climates is that wool when wet is a pretty dismal experience.

In the 70/80s when Javlin and HH introduced their poly jackets they were pretty well universal in the army as the benefits were obvious to those earnest and devoted defenders of democracy on the fringes of the Iron-curtain, even though they had to buy them with their own money.

I would like to see some comparative tests, conducted with scientific rigour before I would blindly accept the benefits of natural products versus synthetics.

On a cold X-channel in March,given the choice between my genuine hand knitted Guernsey cost £80 15 years ago and my Regatta fleece cost £12, I'm afraid the fleece would win hands down.

Been doing some googling.

This question is a bit like the anchoring and MMGW threads, lots of heat and very little light.

Trying to find decent science is very difficult.

Mountaineering forums are quite interesting but not conclusive.

Most of the research seems to have been sponsored either by wool marketing boards or chemical companies, so can be pretty well discounted.

My conclusion, IMO, is provided you've got a decent set of breathable waterproofs and can stay dry it probably doesn't matter what the base insulating layers are made of.
 
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wool does feel nicer but takes a lot longer to dry. Not sure whether either of them insulate when wet. I have some synthetic stuff that has a silver thread in it to eliminate smells. Seems to work. Why is down still popular? Doesn't insulate that well, really stinks when wet and cant be washed in a normal machine.
 
Another vote for natural fibres!

My conclusion, IMO, is provided you've got a decent set of breathable waterproofs and can stay dry it probably doesn't matter what the base insulating layers are made of.

That's my theory. Everything under my breathable foulies and breathable seaboots is of natural materials.

I have disliked synthetics ever since I was a child, as they make my skin itch and don't breathe properly (which is why you start to smell quickly). I love wool, cotton and leather. I can go days wearing cotton shirts, t-shirts, wool jerseys, wool-rich socks and leather shoes, etc before my wife starts giving me disapproving looks.

If I wear any kind of synthetic headwear, my scalp starts to itch and flake. I've been wearing the same soft wool beanie for hill-walking and sailing for over five years (regularly washed) because I can't find a natural wool replacement. If it gets heavily rained on it stays warm, much like a wetsuit keeps you warm in the water.

And the funny thing is that - even in very cold weather - my heavy tweed blazer can be worn with an open shirt and still keep me warm!
 
Why is down still popular? Doesn't insulate that well, really stinks when wet and cant be washed in a normal machine.
down insulates incredibly well when dry, not sure what makes you think that it doesn't. but it's popular because it is incredibly light. probably the best weight to warmth ratio of anything out there.
 
After a lifetime of mountaineering and years of sailing I've come to the conclusion that we customers are being conned with regards to expensive foulies. Chandleries tend to be much more expensive than outdoor gear shops for similar garments, golf retailers are much the same.
Nowadays I go for practicality at the most economical price. Last weekend I was sailing around the Solent, quite windy on Friday, cold but dry Sat & Sun, wet on Monday. I wore a 'breathable' jacket I picked up for £15 in a remainder sale in a climbing shop, an old pair of skiing salopettes over a pair of 'Ron Hills', a fleece top over a thermal vest, a pair of cycling gloves and alternated between cap and wooly hat. Most expensive item was £99 boots from Quayside, lovely and warm and very dry. Kept perfectly warm and dry and only a bit damp round the neck whilst clearing boat. Even paying ££££££'s for a jacket doesn't prevent it having big holes for head, arms etc.
 
I have been wearing merino for about three years now, a mix of branded (howies) and unbranded (aldi) I find the aldi gear is a little lighter but no worse than the howies gear in construction.
I must say that the insulation when wet seems to be similar to synthetic gear, say Lowe Alpine or HH, but I think this may be down to the close fitting nature of these under garments rather than their respective material.

Well worth looking into and they do feel nicer on the skin, plus I don't get electrocuted by static now either! :D
 
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