Graham376
Well-Known Member
My Mitsubishi SL4 base engine is a bog standard push rod engine with no turbo or electronic controls, used in lots of industrial plant.
Modern common rail engines or traditional full mechanic motors.
- Thread starter Chanquete
- Start date
My Mitsubishi SL4 base engine is a bog standard push rod engine with no turbo or electronic controls, used in lots of industrial plant.
Bobc
Well-Known Member
I don't think we're talking about pre-historic non-electrical stuff here. A starter and alternator and some relays are fine and easy to deal with. The problems arise when you add "intelligence" to the engine, such as described above when "the ECU decided to stop the engine because the fuel quality was not right". I have also heard of numerous Volvo engines (mainly D2 units) that have played dead because of an ECU issues, and there is no way to bypass it to get it started.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I suppose...(knowing next to nothing)...
...it's not the starter/alternator, but just engine-management, which would be nice to be able to over-ride, or cut out of the equation.
I had imagined that the same micro-chippery which can object to this or that fuel grade, or respond automatically to self-diagnosed cooling issues, etc, also refines the engine's running, making the whole set-up a smooth, low-maintenance, car-style package.
But perhaps the evolution of linkages, lubricants and insulation used for today's auxiliaries are responsible for smoothness and quietness, while the electronic 'minder' which governs modern diesels is part nanny, part dictator.
I guess with a bit of study, it oughtn't to be difficult to specify a simple base engine like Graham376's Mitsubishi, and add only the additional parts which suit the user's application. The problem being, most boats are built with such decisions taken by the designer.
...it's not the starter/alternator, but just engine-management, which would be nice to be able to over-ride, or cut out of the equation.
I had imagined that the same micro-chippery which can object to this or that fuel grade, or respond automatically to self-diagnosed cooling issues, etc, also refines the engine's running, making the whole set-up a smooth, low-maintenance, car-style package.
But perhaps the evolution of linkages, lubricants and insulation used for today's auxiliaries are responsible for smoothness and quietness, while the electronic 'minder' which governs modern diesels is part nanny, part dictator.
I guess with a bit of study, it oughtn't to be difficult to specify a simple base engine like Graham376's Mitsubishi, and add only the additional parts which suit the user's application. The problem being, most boats are built with such decisions taken by the designer.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Not so much the designer decision but forced because of emission regulations on new boats. There are plenty of basic replacement engines around, personally I don't want an overhead camshaft, turbo or (as discussed above) common rail with electronic controls which can't be bypassed in an emergency. New boat engines are going the same way as cars with expensive specialised dealer servicing.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Does that mean that simple engines like your Mitsu are themselves specifically outlawed for use in new boats?
Or are the engines themselves not built anymore?
Reminds me of two-stroke outboards...we can mostly find an old one to re-fit an old boat, but it's an ever-diminishing supply.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I know, but the point that I am making is that the small low power output industrial engines used in most sailing yachts do not have those things. They only start when you get to higher HP ratings.
The D1 and D2 family of engines have an electronic control panel as i said and there have been problems with this - current replacement programme of the control box on D1-30 engines 2017 on. Engines can still be started by jumping the starter motor (as we used to do in our youth with our old cars) and stopped manually. They (like others) do not need electricity to run.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
This is a blind alley.
As I said earlier all the small hp engines are mechanical - they are primarily built for industrial and agricultural use. The low specific power outputs do not need common rail technology, nor electronics. Remember these engines have a specific output of between 35-40hp per litre compared with automotive diesel engines where even the low powered ones are twice that and outputs of 100hp litre are quite common. It is this and more stringent emissions that demand the high level of control that you can only get using these new technologies.
There are emission regulations for small boat engines and obviously all the current engines meet them without resorting to new technologies.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
I'm not up to date on regs. for new boat engines and which ones comply but I see my mate's mobo even has fly by wire from the morse control.
There are plenty of old tech engines still being built mostly for generators and small plant use, many of which are still being marinised.
Two stroke outboards can still be purchased if you can convince the dealer and national distributor that your use is commercial, which entails providing letterhead & sample trade invoices and agreeing to terms of use and future resale within EU.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Saltsail
Member
Simple rule KIS (keep it simple) simple engines are easier to maintain and repair in unpredicted enviroment! rather than cdi or other modern or turbo based engines.