simonfraser
Well-Known Member
and could not get back to base ?
with hindsight could you have avoided it with better care or better spares ?
with hindsight could you have avoided it with better care or better spares ?
mobo's when were you last faced with total engine failure ?
- Thread starter simonfraser
- Start date
Momac
Well-Known Member
A friend used to break down regularly. It was always a fuel issue. It could in every case have been avoided by putting fuel in the tank.
rubberduck
Well-Known Member
:ambivalence:
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Haha
I was going to post the same thing as a poll but it looked complicated!
I had one ( on a twin engine boat) which was the KAD300 belt. They wore all the time. Knowing what i know now I would have had it cleaned, aligned and sorted but I knew no better. I had a spare belt and I did replace it at sea.
I have been through 2 Williams engines ( both under warranty). In both cases the engines were able to limp me back to the boat ( in each case I was probably half a mile away)
I have only been towed once when the ski rope went up the Williams and a jet ski kindly towed me 3-400 metres. It was quite funny as his water plume was landing right in the boat / on our heads, but given he was kind enough to tow me I could not really complain! it was better than swimming! This was of course wholly avoidable. I haven to done it for 2 years, but it is only a question of when not if - but i do keep my hand on the kill chord and pull it as soon as there is any risk of it happening. Back next week so of course we now know what is going to happen!
I was going to post the same thing as a poll but it looked complicated!
I had one ( on a twin engine boat) which was the KAD300 belt. They wore all the time. Knowing what i know now I would have had it cleaned, aligned and sorted but I knew no better. I had a spare belt and I did replace it at sea.
I have been through 2 Williams engines ( both under warranty). In both cases the engines were able to limp me back to the boat ( in each case I was probably half a mile away)
I have only been towed once when the ski rope went up the Williams and a jet ski kindly towed me 3-400 metres. It was quite funny as his water plume was landing right in the boat / on our heads, but given he was kind enough to tow me I could not really complain! it was better than swimming! This was of course wholly avoidable. I haven to done it for 2 years, but it is only a question of when not if - but i do keep my hand on the kill chord and pull it as soon as there is any risk of it happening. Back next week so of course we now know what is going to happen!
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Elessar
Well-Known Member
Once 12 years ago 197 miles into a 200 mile cruise in a single engined boat. Catastrophically blown out drive. Could have possibly avoided with a drive shower.
Failed at the bottom of Southampton water outside shipping lane so anchored and arranged a tow once I knew I could fix it.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
In a small single engine boat? once. Didn't have a kicker and the drive hit something and broke.
With a kicker none, the kicker always pulled through - 3 times.
In a cruiser. I've had one or the other engines go for some reason or other. Impeller the cause. I carry spares. Always 3 because wouldn't you know you burn out the first spare trying to track down the problem such is Murpgy's law. Once a belt tensioner bearing seized. Why I haven't a clue. They get changed every second year. For that I didn't have a spare and rode on one engine the 30 miles back to port. I now keep spares of that with the spare belts. I also carry spare hose .
What I would like to say though is there is a very different mind set between cruisers and small boats. Go to a fast fisher forum and the like and they will look at you like you are irresponsible if you suggest they forgo their kicker. Your opinion gained here is not universally accepted nor does it translate across the board
With a kicker none, the kicker always pulled through - 3 times.
In a cruiser. I've had one or the other engines go for some reason or other. Impeller the cause. I carry spares. Always 3 because wouldn't you know you burn out the first spare trying to track down the problem such is Murpgy's law. Once a belt tensioner bearing seized. Why I haven't a clue. They get changed every second year. For that I didn't have a spare and rode on one engine the 30 miles back to port. I now keep spares of that with the spare belts. I also carry spare hose .
What I would like to say though is there is a very different mind set between cruisers and small boats. Go to a fast fisher forum and the like and they will look at you like you are irresponsible if you suggest they forgo their kicker. Your opinion gained here is not universally accepted nor does it translate across the board
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Not sure whether this can be described as an engine failure but many years ago one Saturday morning in summer we experienced a very scary experience in the middle of the E Channel in our Princess 435. We were cruising along nicely at 20kts when I heard a big bang from down below, the boat suddenly slowed and started veering to s/board. I brought the engines back to idle and went down to investigate. I could see straight away that the universal coupling that connected the s/board gearbox to the prop shaft had completely sheared. Luckily the shaft was still inside the boat thanks to a jubilee clip around it but water was coming into the boat through the shaft seal. I was puzzled at first as to how this could have happened but then I noticed to my horror that the s/board engine was sitting askew. On closer inspection all 4 engine mountings had failed and the engine had literally fallen off its mountings. That was bad enough but when I inspected the port engine mountings closely, 3 of those had bolts which were sheared and that engine was held in position by one single bolt
Luckily we were still within VHF range of Solent coastguard so I called them and explained the situation. They offered to send a lifeboat but I told them we would try getting back under our own power first before bothering the RNLI. So we then motored very gingerly back to the Hamble on the port engine only at minimum rpm praying that the remaining mounting bolt would hold and that the bilge pumps could cope with the water ingress which thankfully they did. This took several hours and luckily the tide was with us up the Solent. Despite it being a Sat afternoon, Solent Coastguard arranged for an emergency lift out at Hamble Point and by Sat evening the boat was safely sitting on the hard
Very fortunately my insurance co accepted the repair as an insurance claim. To this day I'm not sure why because I later learnt that the engine mountings on my Volvo TAMD71A engines were well known to be subject to corrosion and failure and it was my fault for not checking them regularly (I do now!). The replacement mountings from Volvo were about twice as big
Anyway that experience plus several other experiences of losing drive on one side due to prop fouling and on one occasion, a grounding, has meant that for me, a twin engined boat is far preferable
Luckily we were still within VHF range of Solent coastguard so I called them and explained the situation. They offered to send a lifeboat but I told them we would try getting back under our own power first before bothering the RNLI. So we then motored very gingerly back to the Hamble on the port engine only at minimum rpm praying that the remaining mounting bolt would hold and that the bilge pumps could cope with the water ingress which thankfully they did. This took several hours and luckily the tide was with us up the Solent. Despite it being a Sat afternoon, Solent Coastguard arranged for an emergency lift out at Hamble Point and by Sat evening the boat was safely sitting on the hard
Very fortunately my insurance co accepted the repair as an insurance claim. To this day I'm not sure why because I later learnt that the engine mountings on my Volvo TAMD71A engines were well known to be subject to corrosion and failure and it was my fault for not checking them regularly (I do now!). The replacement mountings from Volvo were about twice as big
Anyway that experience plus several other experiences of losing drive on one side due to prop fouling and on one occasion, a grounding, has meant that for me, a twin engined boat is far preferable
A_8
Well-Known Member
Not sure my incident qualifies either but if on only one engine it would have. I had the axle shear right off on the freshwater pump between the outer and inner bearings on a 40nm crossing. Engine overheated and there was no way I could run it.
It was a pump I had changed a few years back becouse it was leaking and when putting it togeather I noticed a bit of paint on the contact surface on the pulley, I though it odd but did not do anything about it and later the penta explanation was that there were a slight vibration that have exausted the axle and it eventually broke. If true I would have avoided this by thinking twice about the paint and removed it before assembly.
It was a pump I had changed a few years back becouse it was leaking and when putting it togeather I noticed a bit of paint on the contact surface on the pulley, I though it odd but did not do anything about it and later the penta explanation was that there were a slight vibration that have exausted the axle and it eventually broke. If true I would have avoided this by thinking twice about the paint and removed it before assembly.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Not exactly show stoppers but may be relevant .
One of the king planks of the you don,t need two engines is follow the manufactures service schedule to the letter .
Some how by doing so the risk of an engine failure is so small its not worth bothering with a 2nd be it twin or aux or is that “ kicker “ ?
We had a twin KAD 300 and used local agents to maintain it .
May 1/2 term we set off ( Fam of 4 ) on a trip and within say 40 miles a belt snapped and the alternator light came on .
We were twixt mainland and Corsica -seemed like the middle of the sea - it was Infact ,not a soul in sight about lunch time .
Switched off after dropping off the plane .
Now the first point is the belts were all supposed to be replaced about 2 weeks ago and the boat tested .
2nd point I carried spares .
3 rd point - never done a belt in boat , done plenty on cars / lawn tractors etc .
We had a good engine but did not fancy finishing or returning in D mode .
Luckily I had the tools and understood the manual and managed to change it .
From memory I had to remove at least another ( supercharger ? ) to get to the offending item .
I wasn’t impressed by the tightening pulley mechanics btw .
We continued on .
What I did notice was rusty pulleys which I later rectified by cleaning / polishing and painting with wax oil .
Never had another let go since .
You need to be 1/2 handy with mechanical stuff to tackle this in rolling seas and carry the right spares / tools .
Second event
Same outdrives boat we caught a load of builder brick bailing band around a leg and props , the rpm suddenly dropped the boat dropped off the plane etc , engine still ran so I knew it was a leg issue .
Again 1/2 way actually coming back from Porquerolles so 35 miles from home .
I lifted both legs and could clearly see crap wrapped around one .
Found a nice shallow and luckily calm ish bay dropped the anchor .
Out come the VP handbook again !
This time prop removal @ sea was on the cards .
Snorkel tools and the in 3M over clean sand I managed to do it without dropping the myriad of washers / spacer / shims etc .
Passed all the bits up the wife on the bathing platform then spent over an hour cutting off the what seemed welded plastic around the two contra rotating shafts .
Then refitted the props .
It ran fine ,but obviously I could not tell if a seal had been compromised.
As it happened I sold the boat about month later and the buyers surveyor did not open up the legs .
Of course we had a second engine being a twin on both occasions but did not fancy D speed .
Then with this boat -shaft drive .
We had been far W for over a week and a mistrial was forecast so we tucked up behind a peninsula.
Anyhow after the evening meal and strengthening wind even though we were sheltered wife was getting nervous about staying there .
We were about 70 miles way from our home berth , which was a down wind run straight on the stern .
So it was decided to do a runner - home .
Wind picked up and the waves were getting bigger and troughs deeper .
We were hoofing it just over 2000 rpm 32 knots even at that speed it sat on a wave crest then either went over big splash or drop back a few M tipping the bow up so we could not really see ahead much if it did that .
Any how about 2/3 reds in say after 40 miles I felt a bad vibration and the speed dropped to near 26 knots and the rpm of the stb engine dropped to say 1800 then 1700 , so I backed off the port in an attempt to cynic .
It was just too wavey to stop , I did not want to end up beam on etc .
It was too choppy to even open one of the engine room hatch’s .
As we went past the Esterel Mountains as is the way the sea calmed down .
Running through my mind was
Hit something
Bent a prop
Pulled the P bracket out of alignment.
Knackered cuttless bearing ,
Gearbox connection misaligned
Engine mounts slipped .
I knew my insurance has a nice bit of a free lift out ( they pay ) if I suspect damage from underwater obstacle s
So mentally (this was Sat Pm ) I,am thinking when we get in after checking in the ER I will have to ring them on a Sunday help line and T up a lift / inspection at the yard nearby on Mon Am .
When we docked all seemed fine at 9 pm sat in the ER .
Sunday arrives after a sleepless night start up all feels ok at the dock so we pootke out to a nearby bay ,anchor up and I don my mini diving kit to inspect the damage .
It felt perfectly normal btw NOW , but I did not get it planing or rev it up .
The stb prop had distinct scratches around the hub down to the nibral metal .
At this time late season they develop a patina of light white ish growth , still smooth enough to function but not as clean a yard acid job at the annual .
The new Marks were acid yellow .
I checked visually the cuttkess and props for damage basically comparing both sides , the gaps were identical so concluded nothing moved or had a pull .
Conclusion
I must have picked up a pot , a string of pots by a wire cable and towed them 30 miles , the wire marking the nibral and the drag affecting the rpm and casing the vibrations ?
Then when marina manoeuvres lots of R on that side it ( what survived the 30 mike drag @26 knots ) dropped off .
In the end I did not bother with arranging a lift as all seemed well .
Just had one very shiny prop .
So it’s not necessary an engine that could be a show stopper .
It would not have been viable to run @ D in those conditions but we could have pulled in somewhere if forced .
One of the king planks of the you don,t need two engines is follow the manufactures service schedule to the letter .
Some how by doing so the risk of an engine failure is so small its not worth bothering with a 2nd be it twin or aux or is that “ kicker “ ?
We had a twin KAD 300 and used local agents to maintain it .
May 1/2 term we set off ( Fam of 4 ) on a trip and within say 40 miles a belt snapped and the alternator light came on .
We were twixt mainland and Corsica -seemed like the middle of the sea - it was Infact ,not a soul in sight about lunch time .
Switched off after dropping off the plane .
Now the first point is the belts were all supposed to be replaced about 2 weeks ago and the boat tested .
2nd point I carried spares .
3 rd point - never done a belt in boat , done plenty on cars / lawn tractors etc .
We had a good engine but did not fancy finishing or returning in D mode .
Luckily I had the tools and understood the manual and managed to change it .
From memory I had to remove at least another ( supercharger ? ) to get to the offending item .
I wasn’t impressed by the tightening pulley mechanics btw .
We continued on .
What I did notice was rusty pulleys which I later rectified by cleaning / polishing and painting with wax oil .
Never had another let go since .
You need to be 1/2 handy with mechanical stuff to tackle this in rolling seas and carry the right spares / tools .
Second event
Same outdrives boat we caught a load of builder brick bailing band around a leg and props , the rpm suddenly dropped the boat dropped off the plane etc , engine still ran so I knew it was a leg issue .
Again 1/2 way actually coming back from Porquerolles so 35 miles from home .
I lifted both legs and could clearly see crap wrapped around one .
Found a nice shallow and luckily calm ish bay dropped the anchor .
Out come the VP handbook again !
This time prop removal @ sea was on the cards .
Snorkel tools and the in 3M over clean sand I managed to do it without dropping the myriad of washers / spacer / shims etc .
Passed all the bits up the wife on the bathing platform then spent over an hour cutting off the what seemed welded plastic around the two contra rotating shafts .
Then refitted the props .
It ran fine ,but obviously I could not tell if a seal had been compromised.
As it happened I sold the boat about month later and the buyers surveyor did not open up the legs .
Of course we had a second engine being a twin on both occasions but did not fancy D speed .
Then with this boat -shaft drive .
We had been far W for over a week and a mistrial was forecast so we tucked up behind a peninsula.
Anyhow after the evening meal and strengthening wind even though we were sheltered wife was getting nervous about staying there .
We were about 70 miles way from our home berth , which was a down wind run straight on the stern .
So it was decided to do a runner - home .
Wind picked up and the waves were getting bigger and troughs deeper .
We were hoofing it just over 2000 rpm 32 knots even at that speed it sat on a wave crest then either went over big splash or drop back a few M tipping the bow up so we could not really see ahead much if it did that .
Any how about 2/3 reds in say after 40 miles I felt a bad vibration and the speed dropped to near 26 knots and the rpm of the stb engine dropped to say 1800 then 1700 , so I backed off the port in an attempt to cynic .
It was just too wavey to stop , I did not want to end up beam on etc .
It was too choppy to even open one of the engine room hatch’s .
As we went past the Esterel Mountains as is the way the sea calmed down .
Running through my mind was
Hit something
Bent a prop
Pulled the P bracket out of alignment.
Knackered cuttless bearing ,
Gearbox connection misaligned
Engine mounts slipped .
I knew my insurance has a nice bit of a free lift out ( they pay ) if I suspect damage from underwater obstacle s
So mentally (this was Sat Pm ) I,am thinking when we get in after checking in the ER I will have to ring them on a Sunday help line and T up a lift / inspection at the yard nearby on Mon Am .
When we docked all seemed fine at 9 pm sat in the ER .
Sunday arrives after a sleepless night start up all feels ok at the dock so we pootke out to a nearby bay ,anchor up and I don my mini diving kit to inspect the damage .
It felt perfectly normal btw NOW , but I did not get it planing or rev it up .
The stb prop had distinct scratches around the hub down to the nibral metal .
At this time late season they develop a patina of light white ish growth , still smooth enough to function but not as clean a yard acid job at the annual .
The new Marks were acid yellow .
I checked visually the cuttkess and props for damage basically comparing both sides , the gaps were identical so concluded nothing moved or had a pull .
Conclusion
I must have picked up a pot , a string of pots by a wire cable and towed them 30 miles , the wire marking the nibral and the drag affecting the rpm and casing the vibrations ?
Then when marina manoeuvres lots of R on that side it ( what survived the 30 mike drag @26 knots ) dropped off .
In the end I did not bother with arranging a lift as all seemed well .
Just had one very shiny prop .
So it’s not necessary an engine that could be a show stopper .
It would not have been viable to run @ D in those conditions but we could have pulled in somewhere if forced .
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Mine was the same belt on a kad300. Horrible thing !
