MOB: windward or leeward

Re: Transom not a good idea...

Because we were racing, there was not an inflated dinghy in sight. But yes, at least it would have given the guys in the water a chance to get out of it, and something to step off if we'd then managed to get alongside.

On the other hand, it would have blown down wind quite rapidly so I guess it would be a good idea to let it go upwind of the victims, and keep a line tied to it so that you could float it down to them under control.
 
Freeboard is not the same

I don't know how you usually stop your boat at sea, and certainly the type of boat has a lot to do with this, but we sail a long keeled boat and we heave to in order to stop.

So we try to heave to directly upwind of the casualty if we can, and our manouevres are aimed at achieving that, so that we drift down on the casualty.

In our case this means that

(a) the boat is heeled, and it is easy to make her heel quite a lot, by oversheeting and leaving the helm up

(b) the boat does not drift down over the casualty with any appreciable speed - maybe half a knot to an absolute maximum of a knot. This rate of drift certainly will not risk putting the casualty under the hull. In practice it works well. However, a fin keeler will certainly drift faster, because her keel will be stalled. But I do believe that it is far more important to keep the casualty in touch with the boat, at the risk of bashing him on the hull, than to keep him clear and lose him. You are going to have to grab him anyway.

(c) the advantage of lying hove to is that there are no flogging sails or loose ropes, and the boat looks after herself.

If your MOB procedure involves lowering or reducing sail then you situation is different.
 
Very true

I did that once - demonstrating to friends

Very embarrassing - they didn't believe it was a normal part of the exercise.

Perhaps lee side for a conscious survivor who can fend himself off and windward for an unconscious one

Although more difficult to recover unconsious man from weather side.

Oh dear I wish you hadn't raised this now
 
I prefer the trailing line with floating sling. Motor rond casulty at a safe distance trailing the line, They pick it up, cut engine, pull them in. Much easier. Of couse if they are incapacitated its back to the traditional route.

Roly, Voya Con Dios, Glasson, Lancaster
 
Re: Freeboard is not the same

For those who may not recently attended a sailing school course, one method of MOB practised, is to try to 'crash stop' the boat - heave to, drop/furl the headsail, let out the mainsheet to feather the mainsail (also indicates wind direction for anyone unable to feel it). Start the engine (ensuring no string in water) then apply forward & reverse gears to keep boat abreast of the casualty - allowing the lee rail to drift down onto the MOB.
Picking up from the lee rail must be the easiest method-rolling the casualty inboard over the rail (have you tried picking up a heavy wet person) - you can even use the headsail sheets to roll the MOB in. How anyone expects to bring a possibly unconcious heavy casualty aboard via the windward rail, particularly on a boat with decent freeboard escapes me - try it in practice. Do not use the ends of the boat for recovery - as already mentioned, the weight of a pitching boat coming down onto the MOB's skull is certainly going to render the MOB into a permanent vegetable (or skewered by the boarding ladder).
Another method, particularly for short handed crew without the benefits of a trailing pick-up buoy, is again to 'crash stop', harden in the mainsheet (with headsail aback) & keep turning the boat 360 degrees (gybing around) - even in strong winds the boat will continue turning around in a very small circle, assuring the MOB that you are not leaving him to go off on a beat etc. Wheel/helm can be left alone using this method & even the weakest helmsman can throw a heaving line the few feet to the MOB & pull the casualty to the rail. Going back onto a heave-to position then allows the casualty to be rolled in via the lee rail.
For anyone who thinks this 'gybe' method is doubtful, I was taught it by one of the original BT skippers. On a 67' yacht, the usual methods are not viable. A casualty would not be found easily - dont forget even at 5 knots, your boat is 0.25 miles away from the MOB in 3 minutes - how many of us can react quickly enough, particularly if the only person left on the boat to keep watching the MOB & manouvering unless you stay very close to the MOB.
I remember a Yachtmaster Examiners retort to a candidate when asked the usual question during a practical "do you want me to do MOB under sail or engine"? - reply "MOB is not an academic exercise" The MOB must be recovered inboard quickly.
 
Gybe!

Thank you; I was starting to feel rather lonely with my enthusiasm for heaving to and getting the casualty over the lee rail. I am old enough to have been taught the rule that the first thing you do with a man overboard is to put the helm hard down so that you gybe immediately; this automatically leaves the boat hove-to.

The drawbacks to trying to get your victim inboard from the windward side are the height of the topsides and the certainty that the boat, having much more windage than the victim, will drift rapidly away from him.
 
Re: Gybe!

Sorry mirelle, I can't agree with you about gybing. I was taught that the immediate action is to put the tiller over to leeward as if to tack, but do not touch the foresail sheets. When the head of the boat has gone through the wind the tiller is then put over to the new leeward side to hold the yacht in the hove-to position. If this is done quickly enough then the yacht comes up hove-to in almost touching distance of the M or WOB. After that, the action as already described about removing the foresail and feathering the main should be followed (with or without the engine).
Incidentally, this can also be done when flying a spinnaker - cruising people only.

The technique is to add another rope to the spinnaker boom, permanently attached to the end of the boom and brought back and secured at the cockpit. i.e. in parallel with the guy. The advantage of this is that the spinnaker boom is held rigidly in position by the three point system of topping lift, downhaul and the new rope. When the yacht is tacked through the wind, there are no worries about the boom flogging about. The spinnaker is backed and easily dropped onto the foredeck. The boom, being held rigidly in place can be ignored until everything has calmed down.

When I was first made to do this, my heart was in my mouth, but it proved just as easy as heaving-to with any other kind of foresail.

The disadvantage, of course is that it is yet another rope to adjust when trimming the spinnaker, but having the spinnaker boom tamed does add a sense of security, especially when sailing shorthanded.
 
Re: Freeboard is not the same

Have been away all weekend so not replied sooner.
My boat is also long keeled and takes for ever to stop. I get rid of the headsail and dump power from the main. As I'm in a semi-enclosed wheelhouse, it all feels a bit remote in comparison to being up 'on -deck' - also I have wheel steering which I don't think is as effective as a tiller. Most aspects of MOB seem to have been covered in this post, I think the fundametals lie within the areas of competence, the situation and how the boat handles, I've been a several boats where people have fallen off and we've hardly done the same thing twice so its no use having a mindset that 'when someone goes over we will...' I just think you need to know what your boat prefers doing and be capable of a rapid situation analysis.
 
Re: yes, claymore

absolutely. The number of people overboard, wind conditions, what is/isn't in the water and everything else means a rapid situation analysis is always needed, not a "procedure".

separately, the towed dinghy syndrmoe, popular abroad, seeems a good safety feature. Not practised here amongst sailing cruisers...cos they get charged more at the marina, I spose?
 
Re: YM headline

it's a point. I do think it quite awful the way that they charge on actual rather than notional. Abroad, if you occupy the space, that's that, a fixed rate, and within limits, the boat can be any lengtht (or shortness). Not valid for a planing powerboat, but surely valid for a saily solent boat going yarmouthwards to pull the dinghy with a floating line. Good way of keep the powerboats at least a moderatley reasonable distance astern too...
 
Just showing my age!

My post was not clear; I agree with you, so far as tacking and leaving the headsails aback goes. But up to 30 years ago one was taught to gybe no matter what and in fact, for older boats, it does work quite well.

Anyone who wants to drop the headsails (note the plural!) and feather the main on my boat is welcome to try it but they would be in for a surprise. Not all boats are bermudian sloops with fin keels - yet! On a gaff cutter you will not be able to feather the main, and you will do better to keep the staysail aback.
 
Re: Freeboard is not the same

Not sure I entirely agree.

Rapid situational analysis sounds very good but is it really another way of improvising on the spur of the moment.

Fairly generally accepted in other fields that contingency planning for disasters is a good thing.

I've never had a crew overboard, and sincerely hope I never do but I can imagine anyone (me included) simply "freezing" with the shock of seeing wife or child disappearing over the side.

Not an ideal state of mind for rational analysis

Better I think to have rehearsed a course of action that you know has worked. Even if you have to modify it as the situation develops. You stand a better chance, I think, of doing that successfully if you can start the manouvre without having too much demand on reasoning ability.

I think thats why military and emergency services spend so much time and effort on "drills" - so action becomes almost automatic and can be carried out under severe stress. I can think of few things more stressful than seeing a member of ones family disappear in the 'oggin.
 
Paralysis through Analysis

Hmm
I don't think we are too far apart here - I mentioned knowing what your boat is happy to do which does suggest that you've done a few drills and practiced. (And done it all again when you change boats).As far as the situation goes, sea state, who it is that went in, what sails you are carrying, proximity of shallow water or other dangers, other boats etc, - all have a bearing on the action you take. I wasn't suggesting that you adopt some form of "we'll sort that out if it ever happens" strategy. The same goes, of course for recovery - with a big team sailing the boat its a whole sight easier to grab someone and lift them back in than it is if there's only 2 of you. Cold water and being restricted by loads of clothing really is debilitating and you can find it nearly impossible to help yourself at all.
So I agree that you need a few strategies and drills but that it is the situation which will normally determine which is employed.
 
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