MOB running backstays

[bobbyH]

Hello

Been wondering this since i did a course last summer, on a boat with no running backstays. hope everybody in the know could help me. The vairous methods for MOB that were taught all involved a heave too to stop the boat, etc. What if the boat has running backstays when the heave to is performed as a matter of emergancy with short hands etc the boom will surely swing across and clobber the runner. I do relaise certain ways around this but would love to know the proper employed techique. Hope someone can help the new boy!! with this proably obvious and easy question


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[Mirelle]

Er, well, yes.

If you tack to heave to, the mainsheet should be reasonably close in, as for close hauled, in which case the boom will, with a properly designed rig, lie clear of the taut lee runner. But the better way to heave to is to bring the clew of the foresail to windward.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Omatako]

Interesting observation. I have always used the headsail to heave to and it always worked.

I saw a video some time ago from Lin and Larry Pardy in which they advocate the use of the main when heaving to.

It would be interesting to hear from forumites on their preferences.

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[extravert]

What kind of boat and rig are you thinking of? Boats/rigs with runners I know are...

Some cutters, that have an inner forestay with jib (J classes and others)
Some fractional racing boats, like my previous X99;
Some old boats, of which I have little knowledge (probably like Mirelle's).

My X99 had a mainsail significantly larger than the biggest jib. When heaving-to by tacking with this boat, the main had to be let out to slow the boat, otherwise the main overpowered the backed foresail, and the boat continued sailing. Letting out the main enough to achieve this was not possible without swapping over the runners.

Mirelle suggested you just tack and forget the main. This will work with some rigs with runners, but it won't work with all of them.

Lets us know what you are considering. If it is an old rig with runners, Mirelle will probably know all about them. If it is a modern racing rig, I can describe how (and how not) to use them.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I hope to own a real boat (and a reliable lifejacket).

 

[snowleopard]

rather than stopping the boat, consider this option, pretty standard rya stuff:

bear away onto a broad reach. in your own time, furl the genoa, tack or gybe back on a reciprocal bearing. this gives you time to shift the runners in the normal way. return to the mob on a close reach , spilling the wind from the main, by pulling directly on the sheet, not hauling it through the blocks. when you reach the mob, let go the sheet and drift. you will make no forward way as long as the main can flap freely.

if you are hove to you are still making way, maybe 1/2 knot, but probably too fast for a recovery.



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[bobbyH]

Think i may have been mis understood a little, i agree from my small knowing that the best way to heave to with runners would be too back the genoa and the best way to pick up the man would be under depowering main sail. but correct me if i am wrong most MOB's i have heard of go somwhere along the lines of MOB-crash tack/heave too- check for lines - start engine - furl genoa motor down wind and pick up man silightly off upwind. or MOB - crash tack /heave too broad reach- tack/gybe on to closish reach pick up man by depowering on this point of sail. So my question is on boats with runners i take it from the feed back i just do not crash tack/ heave too i just miss out this step??

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[alant]

" bear away onto a broad reach. in your own time" - seems a leisurely attitude to what after all, is potentially a 'life threatening' event & terrifying for the poor MOB watching you gently sail away.
I was once shown how to crash stop & gybe turn a 67' BT Challenge yacht which has running backstays. Leave the headsail sheets alone, turn the bows across the wind (thus setting the headsails aback) also heaving in on the mainsheet, centering the main & eliminating any possible damage to the runners when gybing. The boat was impressively able to pirouette around the MOB in a circle no bigger than a boat length diameter. A heaving line to the MOB, safely securing him alongside for recovery. Carrying out the 'RYA' drill, just does not work on a big boat, which takes even more time to work in this 'usual' method.

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[aod]

I have a racing boat with kevlar runners and I teach racing crews the following. Upwind easy. Just crash tack to stop the boat. Drop the headsail. Start the engine. In light winds just pin the main in and motor back. In heavy winds drop the main then motor back. Down wind drop the kite. Start the engine. Head up and then back and drop the main. (be certain that it will be a long way back

The RYA method is sound but if you ever did lose anyone and tried and failed to sail back as a racing certainty the sub enquiry will take a dim view that you didn't just start the engine.

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[qsiv]

I'd agree, and that would braodly be my strategy with my new boat, except that we only really need the runners to keep good frestay tension upwind, and to keep the rig in the boat in heavy downwind conditions. For MOST condtitions, you could simply take the runners fwd. Having said that the boat will be so skittsih, and so prone to accelerate with the main up that it will be better to take it down. Add to that no lift from a thin keel with low boatspeed, and the motor sounds increasingly attractive!

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[Rowana]

I did a similar manouvre on my day skipper course in a Dufour 36. The drill was this - Instructor threw in dan buoy, shouted "Man Overboard". Helmsman put wheel hard over and kept it there. As the boat tacked through the wind, pull mainsheet hard in to center the main. Don't touch jib sheets. Keep wheel hard over while boat gybes. We were well within heaving line distance every time.

I suspect that keel configuration has a lot to do with it, and this method would work with any fin keeler. Long keels and twins would probably react totally different.

I sugest you chuck a fender or something over the side and give this method a try to see how your own boat reacts. The beauty of it is that the only bit of string you have to touch is the main sheet, so no mucking about with runners or anything else. The other thing to remember is to keep the helm HARD over THROUGHT the manouver. One of the guys on my course eased the helm a bit once we'd tacked, and we ended up quite a bit from the "Casualty". The best thing about doing it on a course is that if you do something like this, you see the consequences right away.

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[snowleopard]

leisurely?

far from it. when i said 'in your own time' i meant simply sort yourself out and do each step properly, not sail off into the blue for a couple of hours while you decide if he's worth saving!!

one thing i have found is that if you don't get far enough away (50-100yds) you don't have room to line up on the casualty and might have to go round again. better to get back a minute later under full control than 15 secs later but unable to stop.

the crash tack allows you to slow the boat down and drop off a life ring but it still leaves you with too much way on to effect a recovery. if your runners mean a risk of serious damage from a crash tack, and it's almost inevitable if you're sailing free, then don't do it.

of course anyone with sense will start the engine. the exam exercise is to make sure you can still get back to the casualty if it fails to start.

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