MOB - best sequence of steps with one person left aboard

[prv]

During a YM practical, in fast running ebb just off Brownsea, the examiner dropped his fender+heavy rope coil, shouting MOB. The YM candidate, remembered his recent drill, did a crash stop/turn, with immediate recovery by crew, who quickly brought onboard gloating "look not even wet". The examiner took umbrage & insisted the candidate did a sail away/return/pick up.

Something very similar on my Day Skipper course many years ago, on which the instructor taught the old reach-tack-reach method. Not entirely fair as I clocked him furtively stashing a fender on deck, so knew a MOB exercise was coming, but when he did chuck it in I immediately spun the bow through the wind and we stopped within an easy rope throw, then drifted down to boathook range.

He made me do it again "properly", with a delay before reacting

Pete

 

[Simondjuk]

Prioritising throwing kit over stopping the boat immediately if an MOB occurs is akin to performing the 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre' process if a child runs out in front of you when driving. Stop the boat like you'd hit the brakes.

Close hauled, the one concession I make to immediately crash stopping is a fast, hard bear away, literally as fast and hard as you can wind on full lock to leeward and all the way back to the windward stop again, as this tends lay the boat slap bang on top of the MOB at the first go rather than tending toward overshooting. It's only really necessary if your reaction to crash stop is completely spontaneous and immediate due to it being instinctual though.

Don't wilfully sail away from an MOB. Proximity is everything. You can't get them back if you've lost them and a danbuoy is not visible enough and doesn't have a similar enough drift rate to an MOB to significantly reduce the chances that you won't.

 

[alant]

Prioritising throwing kit over stopping the boat immediately if an MOB occurs is akin to performing the 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre' process if a child runs out in front of you when driving. Stop the boat like you'd hit the brakes.

Close hauled, the one concession I make to immediately crash stopping is a fast, hard bear away, literally as fast and hard as you can wind on full lock to leeward and all the way back to the windward stop again, as this tends lay the boat slap bang on top of the MOB at the first go rather than tending toward overshooting. It's only really necessary if your reaction to crash stop is completely spontaneous and immediate due to it being instinctual though.

Don't wilfully sail away from an MOB. Proximity is everything. You can't get them back if you've lost them and a danbuoy is not visible enough and doesn't have a similar enough drift rate to an MOB to significantly reduce the chances that you won't.

I always consider the mental anguish of the MOB, with a visible horizon measured in a few metres, as the boat disappears away, so the crew left on board can carry out some textbook sailing manoeuvre.

 

[RupertW]

I always consider the mental anguish of the MOB, with a visible horizon measured in a few metres, as the boat disappears away, so the crew left on board can carry out some textbook sailing manoeuvre.

Clearly two camps here - those who gamble all on a quick turn to get back to the casualty and those who want to visibly mark the spot first so if they first attempt fails they have an aiming point.

I think there is a developing consensus that (whether done as the first or second action) stopping the boat fast is vital.

 

[alant]

Clearly two camps here - those who gamble all on a quick turn to get back to the casualty and those who want to visibly mark the spot first so if they first attempt fails they have an aiming point.

I think there is a developing consensus that (whether done as the first or second action) stopping the boat fast is vital.

A quick turn, is not a gamble.
However, sailing away certainly is.

 

[prv]

Clearly two camps here - those who gamble all on a quick turn to get back to the casualty and those who want to visibly mark the spot first so if they first attempt fails they have an aiming point.

I mark the spot by putting my boat on it

Pete

 

[RupertW]

I mark the spot by putting my boat on it

Pete

Obvously I think what you and Alant are suggesting is very dangerous as it creates a high and unnecessary risk of turning the boat then looking and looking vainly for the MOB, compared to 5 seconds or less throwing the danbouy then doing the turn.

But like the anchoring threads our ideas are now fixed it seems with neither side able to learn from the others' obvious feeling of being right. Which I am. Of course. I hope.

 

[prv]

high and unnecessary risk of turning the boat then looking and looking vainly for the MOB

Why would I turn and only then look? I don't need to look down at the wheel to see what I'm doing with it, so I'm going to have my eyes on my MOB at all times. This isn't speculation - I'm not an instructor doing it constantly like Alan, but I have picked up at least three hats and two shoes this way over the years, so I'm confident that it works in normal conditions provided I'm steering (not on autopilot) at the time. A head in the water is small, but the toe of a shoe is even smaller, you have to keep your eyes on it right from the start or it's gone.

Frankly I'm more likely to take my eyes off an MOB while trying to release a buoy, either because I need to look at the release mechanism, or because it's tangled, or simply because it's on the other side of the boat from where I ought to be looking.

EDIT:
(Of course I still carry a horseshoe buoy, and a Jon Buoy, because shit happens and its good to have options. For one thing, I tell crew their job in an MOB is to do their best to drop the Jon Buoy on his head as he goes past, so if more than two-up there's a chance we'll turn and fire off a buoy simultaneously. Just saying that if I'm on the helm when it happens, I'm going to prioritise stopping the boat over sailing away while doing anything else.)

Pete

 

[alant]

Obvously I think what you and Alant are suggesting is very dangerous as it creates a high and unnecessary risk of turning the boat then looking and looking vainly for the MOB, compared to 5 seconds or less throwing the danbouy then doing the turn.

But like the anchoring threads our ideas are now fixed it seems with neither side able to learn from the others' obvious feeling of being right. Which I am. Of course. I hope.

If you crash stop & turn, you don't have "to look vainly for the MoB", because you will be next to him, that being the whole purpose in doing the manoeuvre. "5 seconds or less"? I have previously asked, obviously in vain, for someone to actually time how long it actually takes, for someone down below to walk to the pushpit & deploy the danbuoy. Every minute, you take, could mean multiples of 154 metres @ 5 knots. Crash stopping means that you immediately stop the distance increasing further. Other than in flat seas, that might be the difference between recovery & losing him.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I think what many of us are trying to say is, you'll actually get the danbuoy closer to the MOB if you crash stop and turn before you deploy it!

(Don't forget to sheet the main hard in as you come through the wind - and do nothing with the headsail.)

 

[RupertW]

If you crash stop & turn, you don't have "to look vainly for the MoB", because you will be next to him, that being the whole purpose in doing the manoeuvre. "5 seconds or less"? I have previously asked, obviously in vain, for someone to actually time how long it actually takes, for someone down below to walk to the pushpit & deploy the danbuoy. Every minute, you take, could mean multiples of 154 metres @ 5 knots. Crash stopping means that you immediately stop the distance increasing further. Other than in flat seas, that might be the difference between recovery & losing him.

I am genuinely listening but you can't compare somebody down below walking to the pushpit to somebody manually steering doing a crash turn. That person manually steering could just as easily step across and drop the danbouy/lifebelt/light and if that took 5 seconds thats 15 metres or a boat length, but with the invaluable marker in the water to get back to.

If the person left on board is anything but an absolute expert then they may fumble much more in the crash stop and return than in dropping kit as a marker. So it's still a big gamble on your helming ability and quick reactions to get it right first time, because without markers in the water you have removed your chance of a second or third attempt as you will have no idea where the MOB is any more.

 

[[70521]]

Done often whilst demonstrating on various school boats, so conditions varied, not always done in Lake Solent.

Love the Lake Solent comment

Wind conditions varied, but so did sail set up accordingly. Procedure can seem alarming, as main gybes, but rather potentially break boat bits, than end up explaining why someone had died.

Totally agree.

Also used it on corporate charters, when anyone fearfully about boat falling over, put them on the wheel & ask them to put helm hard over. Their improved confidence is usually immediate when they realise the boat is still OK. . Suggest you try it if not already done, even 'regular' sailors can be surprised by the manouverability & often they gain in confidence.
PS make sure no loose gear down below & warn everyone in advance.

Fun as you say and a valuable teaching aid.

 

[alant]

I am genuinely listening but you can't compare somebody down below walking to the pushpit to somebody manually steering doing a crash turn. That person manually steering could just as easily step across and drop the danbouy/lifebelt/light and if that took 5 seconds thats 15 metres or a boat length, but with the invaluable marker in the water to get back to.

If the person left on board is anything but an absolute expert then they may fumble much more in the crash stop and return than in dropping kit as a marker. So it's still a big gamble on your helming ability and quick reactions to get it right first time, because without markers in the water you have removed your chance of a second or third attempt as you will have no idea where the MOB is any more.

You should try a crash stop, then decide.
I know what works & fumbling with a danbuoy isn't my choice.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If the person left on board is anything but an absolute expert then they may fumble much more in the crash stop and return than in dropping kit as a marker.

That's a good point, I think. A crash stop is definitely a good idea if there is someone capable of doing it and of taking suitable later action, but if the person left isn't competent then their best course of action is probably to mark the place and call for help.

 

[alant]

That's a good point, I think. A crash stop is definitely a good idea if there is someone capable of doing it and of taking suitable later action, but if the person left isn't competent then their best course of action is probably to mark the place and call for help.

Stop the boat first, how difficult is it to turn a wheel?
Certainly don't need to be an expert.
However, comments like yours, certainly reinforce the need to at least demonstrate a MOB procedure (& actually practice it, not just talk through) if you have any new crew onboard (as well as keeping your own skills keen).
Please, please, please, just stand at your pushpit & try to deploy your MOB gear, because on many boats they are so tangled, or secured in case of loss, that bolt cutters might be needed.
Do not assume they will deploy, check properly. (Yes, I realise this makes them untidy, but they are not decorations)

 

[Barnacle Bill]

That's a good point, I think. A crash stop is definitely a good idea if there is someone capable of doing it and of taking suitable later action, but if the person left isn't competent then their best course of action is probably to mark the place and call for help.

So see my post #88.

I teach my kids to do a crash stop and then keep the boat sailing in circles with the helm hard over. That way they and the boat are safe, and they can go below and call "Help Help" on the VHF (never mind the full Mayday procedure), which is left tuned to Ch 16.

The yacht stays pretty much where it is, sailing in circles, so someone else can see it (rather more easily that a danbuoy!) and come and help.

(Just remember to sheet the main hard in!)

 

[prv]

I have previously asked, obviously in vain, for someone to actually time how long it actually takes, for someone down below to walk to the pushpit & deploy the danbuoy.

Let's be fair - if the other person on board is down below then a crash stop isn't going to be happening immediately either.

Pete

 

[prv]

If the person left on board is anything but an absolute expert then they may fumble much more in the crash stop and return than in dropping kit as a marker. So it's still a big gamble on your helming ability

It doesn't take "an absolute expert", it takes someone who knows the difference between windward and leeward (or "uphill" and "downhill" for some). Yes, there are people who on their first-ever outing on a yacht take a while to get to grips with that - but I'd tend not to leave such people on the helm unattended anyway as they can tend to get into bigger and bigger oscillations from side to side as they double-think themselves and over-correct. Anyone who can be trusted to steer on their own ought to be able to turn the wheel all the way to windward and leave it there.

Pete

 

[RupertW]

Stop the boat first, how difficult is it to turn a wheel?
Please, please, please, just stand at your pushpit & try to deploy your MOB gear, because on many boats they are so tangled, or secured in case of loss, that bolt cutters might be needed.
Do not assume they will deploy, check properly. (Yes, I realise this makes them untidy, but they are not decorations)

On this I completely agree with you and we do practice this more than once a season and have had to adjust things to make it easy to just pick up and chuck (at the slightly increased risk of it flying off by itself - but that wouldn't be a major problem compared to it getting stuck when needed)

Good point on practicing crash stops (even if they are the second task I'd do, not the first) . I have done them but not for some years and I'm not sure my wife ever felt confident. We've been sailing together for 30 years and I'd trust her in the busiest shipping lane or most complicated navigation but if I shouted "steer to windward" I doubt she would work it out in under a minute, or at all in a crisis.

 

[alant]

On this I completely agree with you and we do practice this more than once a season and have had to adjust things to make it easy to just pick up and chuck (at the slightly increased risk of it flying off by itself - but that wouldn't be a major problem compared to it getting stuck when needed)

Good point on practicing crash stops (even if they are the second task I'd do, not the first) . I have done them but not for some years and I'm not sure my wife ever felt confident. We've been sailing together for 30 years and I'd trust her in the busiest shipping lane or most complicated navigation but if I shouted "steer to windward" I doubt she would work it out in under a minute, or at all in a crisis.

Best not complicate things with sailing terms, I'm sure even she could work out "turn left/turn right".
Found that out quite quickly with novices, best to use terms they already use, like "pull the red/green/blue" rope, rather than halliard/sheet. Complicate it with sailortalk later.