Mizzen staysail help please

[NUTMEG]

When I purchased Rhoda Rose (Colvic Watson 28 ketch) I was told that amongst other things she came with a mizzen staysail. Well, I have turned the boat inside out and there is no such thing aboard. I am not concerned about this as she is a lovely boat and I got her for a very good price, so not complaining.

On the mizzen there is a haliard and cleats etc that I assume are for the missing staysail.

I have not a clue what a mizzen staysail for a wheelhouse motor sailer would look like and no idea how to set or trim one.

Have any of the forum any idea what they look like or provide any info?

Just curious at this stage but may be up for adapting one of the old,sails that live in the shed

Cheers all

Steve

 

[Seajet]

The word ' wheelhouse ' would seem important here ! I can only see two options, both dubious; a very short sail above the roof, or a more conventional staysail tacked down to the gunwale for longish trips ???

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

They're kind of like cruising chutes, with the tack at, or towards, the foot of the mainmast and the head at the top of the mizzen... great sails!

 

[Tranona]

Not sure that a mizzen staysail would be particularly effective on a boat like yours. Its inclusion in the description may be more wishful thinking than reality. Its main use is to fill the gap between the mizzen mast and the main, usually on a reach in light airs. It si cut like a jib. As Seajet says, with a wheelhouse you could only effectively use it if you attach its tack to the lee gunwhale which would mean dropping it and repositioning the tack on the opposite side when going about. You will also need sheeting points aft of the mizzen. You could try with a jib sail of an appropriate size set flying to see if there is any advantage before organising a permanent arrangement.

 

[LadyInBed]

Can't you contact the previous owner and ask?
Mine is a wire from the top of the mizzen down to the Main kicking strap (detached from the boom) to tension it.
I haven't got a sail yet but it will be a hank on light weight Yankee.
They are used for upwind sailing, as opposed to my gennaker (see avatar) which I use with the wind off the quarter.

 

[NUTMEG]

Thanks chaps. Now I feel like an idiot (nothing new). In a locker I found an old jib, I assumed it was from some other boat and stuck it in the shed. That must be the 'staysail' in the inventory. Looked to be off of a twenty footer or thereabouts. I have also found some photos thanks to google. To be honest the old jib looks so small I don't think it will do much. Still, something to play with

Its main use is to fill the gap between the mizzen mast and the main, usually on a reach in light airs. It si cut like a jib. As Seajet says, with a wheelhouse you could only effectively use it if you attach its tack to the lee gunwhale which would mean dropping it and repositioning the tack on the opposite side when going about. You will also need sheeting points aft of the mizzen. You could try with a jib sail of an appropriate size....

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

A picture being worth a thousand words --

From "How to set up a sailing ketch" -- http://cruisinglife.com.au/sailing-ketch/

Mike

 

[Seajet]

wooden boat fittings,

that's spiffing but I don't see a wheelhouse in that illustration, so where does the caption ' although shown here to leeward,the tack line must actually be secured on the windward side ' figure in the OP's case we are discussing ?

 

[KenMcCulloch]

No experience of CWs but I have sailed a few ketches and I think Seajet's concerns are misplaced. If the mizzen staysail is tacked somewhere near the heel of the mainmast, preferably but not essentially on th windward side, the sail should fly nicely clear of the wheelhouse. It's not a sail for winds forward of abeam (despite one poster's suggestion to the contrary) so the clew will be well outboard.

 

[Seajet]

That might work on a broadish reach, as long as visibilty is not required, but not even on a beam reach or anything like it; and if that far off the wind, doesn't it get to require poling out, in which case something like a big chute from the mainmast would seem more useful ?

 

[prv]

in which case something like a big chute from the mainmast would seem more useful ?

Have both :encouragement:

Pete

 

[charles_reed]

Having looked at photos of the Colvic Watson 28 - the mizzen staysail looks as though the foot would be on the aft end of the wheelhouse (the main boom reaches over the wheel house).
As there's no stay it would be set flying and finding sheeting points look to be quite challenging (outriggers on the aft bulwarks and a balancing pole for the trimmer?).
The alternative would be a thing like a blooper. As suggested by Seajet.
Personally, if the wind had dropped to that extent I'd start the engine, rather than try and make a hunter out of a Sheltie.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

OP: Try this link to an older YBW thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?142315-mizzen-staysails

Good advice on that thread from people who've actually used one on some heavy tubs. Sometimes those with the least experience of the actual question are the most vehement with their replies, as we've seen in this thread.

The CW wheelhouse won't stop you setting ones both booms are above it. We toyed with the idea of a mizzen chute and that would be easier to set.

 

[NUTMEG]

Thanks LK. This is an ongoing idea. I recently found an old asymmetric cruising chute cum spinnaker which looks as if it might be worth playing with. Funny the things one finds in the shed! Happy new year.

 

[wombat88]

Thanks chaps. Now I feel like an idiot (nothing new). In a locker I found an old jib, I assumed it was from some other boat and stuck it in the shed. That must be the 'staysail' in the inventory. Looked to be off of a twenty footer or thereabouts. I have also found some photos thanks to google. To be honest the old jib looks so small I don't think it will do much. Still, something to play with

Ours spent years in various lockers, became known as the Mizzen Stainsail.

Fun to play with keep an eye out for old dinghy genoas...

 

[Searush]

An old jib set upside down may well be roughly the right shape. Definitely a "suck it & see" situation for the first few times until you get something you can live with. Often intended setting on up on SR, but most of my sailing is either solo or tacks of under a mile or two where it would be more trouble than it's worth. Be lovely for a trip to Ireland or IoM, if I ever did one.

 

[stav]

The diagram seems to give all info. I set ours to the base of the mast and sheet to eyes on the end of the mizzen boom. Key issue is that it is a very light weight sail and will set in the smallest of breezes and adds a little when the spinnaker is set. Used ours a few times this year and it just made the difference to keep sailing.