cuan1974
Member
What sort of money would I need to pay for a refurbished Mirror Offshore?
Mirror offshore
- Thread starter cuan1974
- Start date
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Hmm...it’s in that awkward category of being trailerable therefore worth a lot more than something that needs a mooring or a marina berth as those were virtually give away before last Summers bonanza.
However Id have to wonder why you would want one, they are very tublike poor sailors and going below to a chemical bog in a small open cabin is not very nice in a seaway. There must be more fun boats out there with a basic cabin for a coffee and a kip.
Gixer
Well-Known Member
I used to have a mooring next to a guy who had one., he loved it although admitted it was more of a motor sailor than sailboat. I remember him reminiscing about a trip with other mirror offshore owners to the channel islands. I had a Westerly Nimrod and would run rings around him 
As for price, I think with a boat like that its worth what you're prepared to pay. Crap answer but I think its true....
As for price, I think with a boat like that its worth what you're prepared to pay. Crap answer but I think its true....
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
This one is rather optimistically priced at GBP 3,750 - she does have a 12 hp Kubota inboard diesel engine though, which appears to be relatively new, and she appears to be in fairly good condition generally from the photos. The original boats came with a Volvo MD1 7 hp diesel. She has probably had a lot more than GBP 3k spent on her, but that does not mean that she is worth that amount.
Mirror Offshore Mirror Offshore Used Boat for Sale 1968 | TheYachtMarket
Boatshed had one for sale, but she is now 'off the market'. They do not mention what her asking price was, but they do say that she still has her original single cylinder Volvo from 1970.
Mirror Offshore MK1 For Sale, 5.75m, 1971
This one has an asking price of GBP 950 - but some parts of the ad are very peculiar, like how it is a 'Chinese' listing, and her fuel capacity is 1967 gallons.... And isn't this site supposed to be a dodgy take off of another site like www.boats.co.uk ??
Mirror Offshore Sailing Boat Yacht Cruiser Motor Sailer for sale from United Kingdom
Mirror Offshore Mirror Offshore Used Boat for Sale 1968 | TheYachtMarket
Boatshed had one for sale, but she is now 'off the market'. They do not mention what her asking price was, but they do say that she still has her original single cylinder Volvo from 1970.
Mirror Offshore MK1 For Sale, 5.75m, 1971
This one has an asking price of GBP 950 - but some parts of the ad are very peculiar, like how it is a 'Chinese' listing, and her fuel capacity is 1967 gallons.... And isn't this site supposed to be a dodgy take off of another site like www.boats.co.uk ??
Mirror Offshore Sailing Boat Yacht Cruiser Motor Sailer for sale from United Kingdom
cuan1974
Member
Yes the one at £3750 was the one I seen, seems way over priced and been on the market for a long time. That particular broker seems to have hugely inflated prices, £2500 looks like the average price for one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
It is not the broker who sets the price but the seller, and he clearly wants to recover some of expenditure on refurbishment and engine overhaul. Impossible to say objectively what one should pay simply because there is not sufficient information on recent sales to establish a typical selling price. So it is worth what you are prepared to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. At present your view and the seller's seem far apart. However you cannot use prices for others as a bargaining chip. The one at £950 has an ancient MD1 - the worst bit of the boat, looks a heap inside, has no trailer and is in the opposite end of the country. I see it is the boat once owned by Dylan Winter and well known to long standing members on here as well as a regular contributor to PBO . If you read the problems he had with this boat (although he also had some good times) mainly with the MD1 and the rubbish stern gear you would not touch it (or indeed any other MO) with a barge pole.
If you really do fancy one of these then the one in Scotland is probably as good as it gets as it has what seems to be a decent engine (which you will need a lot) and the stern gear looks like it is properly installed. If it has decent sails - they look OK in the photo then it is perhaps a lot better value than many old boats in this price range.
If you really do fancy one of these then the one in Scotland is probably as good as it gets as it has what seems to be a decent engine (which you will need a lot) and the stern gear looks like it is properly installed. If it has decent sails - they look OK in the photo then it is perhaps a lot better value than many old boats in this price range.
cuan1974
Member
Yes get what you mean, for example,I could buy say a leisure 20 for not much more and have a far superior boat, the mirror offshore in Scotland and close to were I live, has been advertised for two years or more so I would say it’s way overpriced, I am looking for a motor sailer so it kind of ticked the box but will keep looking.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
I would imagine £2.5k would be about the top price for any of these small trailer sailers, £1500 for an average one and circa £6-900 for one needing a "bit of tlc" The trailer and the outboard are usually the only parts of the deal that have a real value. The boat itself is almost free.
cuan1974
Member
That’s what I was thinking myself
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Have you made an offer? That is when you start to find out what the price really is.
cuan1974
Member
No not made an offer, emailed them but still waiting for reply.
peteK
Well-Known Member
Not the best designed small boat and have seen 1or 2 falling apart as now they are getting old as you are probably aware they were designed in a hurry for a competion in the Mirror newspaper,there are better boats for your money.
V1701
Well-Known Member
This Hunter 701 might be worth a look, on a trailer, new sails...
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Up to a point and in theory. I'll bet that at some point in the conversation between them the phrase "What do you think you can get for her?" or "What will she go for?" came up. Particular if it's an estate sale and the seller knows nothing at all about boats. It's a bit like selling a house - some estate agents will forecast an unreasonably high price because once they have got you and nobody bites it can be lowered. 80% of an unachievable commission is better than 0% of a realistic one.
BTDTGTTS. We went for what we thought was the realistic prediction and the house was someone else's six weeks later.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Looks interesting, but a curious decision to advertise with two identical pictures only. Also, the 701 was designed by Oliver Lee, not David Thomas. In many ways it's an Anderson 22 with a fixed keel.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I have a soft spot for Mirror Offshores, and was set to buy one once (despite having some years before overtaken one thinking 'thank goodness I don't have a tubby slow boat like that'!), but inspection revealed some problems with that particular boat (introduced by the previous owner's bodged 'refurbishment' of it).
They were designed by Van De Stadt specifically for new boaters, avoiding going on deck to sort sails, etc. I think the design is quite elegant considering what a short, tubby boat it is. It's one of the smallest boats with a separate heads compartment (Mk. 1 only, I think. The one I was going to buy had a sea toilet in a separate compartment, not chemical toilet).
Yes they are under-canvassed compared to a 'regular' sailing boat, but it is deliberately a motor-sailer; and yes they roll rather a lot, but they have undertaken some fairly amazing voyages (incl. mainland USA to Hawaii, all over the Med, etc.) and appear to be well loved by many owners.
While Mirror Offshores were on my wanted list I enquired about joining the Humber Yawl Club. It turned out they had a rule that the club berths could only be occupied by sailing boats, not motor boats or 'motor-sailers'. I asked if the Mirror Offshore would be counted as a motor-sailer and hence excluded. They told me it was acceptable: they already had one in the club, and it always joined in with trips to the continent, etc. It was always last back, they said, but the owner did insist on sailing it, rather than motoring everywhere.
I don't think there's anything essentially wrong with the boat, given the obvious strengths and weaknesses of the concept, but sadly most examples around now will have been badly run down over the years, so the chances of finding one in good condition are slim, I would have thought. On the other hand, given the small size and simplicity of the rig, etc., apart from replacement engines, sails and most replacement parts would not be particularly expensive, I would have thought.
The 'Mk. 1' was the original, and built by Dell Quay Yachts (2 windows a side). A Mk.2 version (one single window each side) was built by Elizabethan Yachts, with a more open interior (losing the separate heads, squeezing in another berth), increasing the ballast and sail area. I've not had the chance to compare the two in 'real life', but I wonder if the Mk.2 doesn't somewhat miss the point of the design, and tried (and failed) to turn it into a conventional small yacht.
There was lovely story in a PBO publication many years ago about a couple who had some large sporty catamaran, but the man began to suffer with terrible wrist, etc. joint pains, and as he deteriorated eventually sadly concluded they could no longer handle the boat, and sold it and put sailing behind them. After some time they went for a sail in a dinghy and were bitten by the bug again. They bought a Mirror Offshore, a boat they wouldn't previously have given the time of day, and had a whale of a time with it. Everything was so small and light to handle - no need for winches, it was manageable for them, and they had a good time with it.
They were designed by Van De Stadt specifically for new boaters, avoiding going on deck to sort sails, etc. I think the design is quite elegant considering what a short, tubby boat it is. It's one of the smallest boats with a separate heads compartment (Mk. 1 only, I think. The one I was going to buy had a sea toilet in a separate compartment, not chemical toilet).
Yes they are under-canvassed compared to a 'regular' sailing boat, but it is deliberately a motor-sailer; and yes they roll rather a lot, but they have undertaken some fairly amazing voyages (incl. mainland USA to Hawaii, all over the Med, etc.) and appear to be well loved by many owners.
While Mirror Offshores were on my wanted list I enquired about joining the Humber Yawl Club. It turned out they had a rule that the club berths could only be occupied by sailing boats, not motor boats or 'motor-sailers'. I asked if the Mirror Offshore would be counted as a motor-sailer and hence excluded. They told me it was acceptable: they already had one in the club, and it always joined in with trips to the continent, etc. It was always last back, they said, but the owner did insist on sailing it, rather than motoring everywhere.
I don't think there's anything essentially wrong with the boat, given the obvious strengths and weaknesses of the concept, but sadly most examples around now will have been badly run down over the years, so the chances of finding one in good condition are slim, I would have thought. On the other hand, given the small size and simplicity of the rig, etc., apart from replacement engines, sails and most replacement parts would not be particularly expensive, I would have thought.
The 'Mk. 1' was the original, and built by Dell Quay Yachts (2 windows a side). A Mk.2 version (one single window each side) was built by Elizabethan Yachts, with a more open interior (losing the separate heads, squeezing in another berth), increasing the ballast and sail area. I've not had the chance to compare the two in 'real life', but I wonder if the Mk.2 doesn't somewhat miss the point of the design, and tried (and failed) to turn it into a conventional small yacht.
There was lovely story in a PBO publication many years ago about a couple who had some large sporty catamaran, but the man began to suffer with terrible wrist, etc. joint pains, and as he deteriorated eventually sadly concluded they could no longer handle the boat, and sold it and put sailing behind them. After some time they went for a sail in a dinghy and were bitten by the bug again. They bought a Mirror Offshore, a boat they wouldn't previously have given the time of day, and had a whale of a time with it. Everything was so small and light to handle - no need for winches, it was manageable for them, and they had a good time with it.
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LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall that the problem was not so much the engine itself, as Dylan's inability and/or unwillingness to get to grips with the work it needed. He had a lot of practical help from people on this forum, as I remember it, to keep it going, but he reached a point where he didn't want to bother any more, or invest the money, to do the work he was advised was needed to properly sort it.
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-Known Member
The owner will never recover the money and effort he put in to refurbish this boat. there are two variations of Mirror Offshore, the later ones were slightly longer with taller rig. This one I think is the the earlier version, I had one of these for a while. The Mirror Offshore is a nice little motorsailer but because of the relatively small rig, and the underwater profile, it is not good in light winds. In terms of price, assuming that everything works well, I would not pay more than £800.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
According to PBO the hulls were the same. Perhaps the Mk.2's additional ballast sat it deeper in the water, increasing the LWL slightly, and increasing the draft. The Mk.2's rudder was slightly longer fore and aft .
LOA 18' 11"
LWL 15' 9"
Beam 6' 9"
Draft 1' 11"
Ballast (Mk.1) 380lb, (Mk. 2) 700lb
Sail Area (Mk.1) 122.4 sq ft (Mk.2) 152 sq ft
Engine (Mk1) Volvo MD1 diesel inboard (Mk.2) Outboard or Inboard
Berths (Mk1) 2, (Mk.2) 4
Tranona
Well-Known Member
But I bet in the 2 years the boat has been on the books, there have been conversations along the lines of... don't think we will get that price ..... but I have spent so much on it! Guess it is not costing any money sitting on its trailer so no pressing bills to prompt action.
