Mirror Dinghy.

[beancounter]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't even think about it. You may succeed once or twice but the physical effort needed each time, on arrival and departure will quickly take the edge off the fun of sailing it.
I've just sold two of these which served us well for years but I wouldn't dream of hefting them up on the roof as eventually you will also damage the car's paintwork.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bell Woodworking (the Mirror manufacturer) used to supply an "Easy Loader", which was a frame on runners that sat on the roof rack. It could be run out to the end of the roof rack and tilted down to the ground. Lift the Mirror on to the inclined frame, the lift up the frame and run it back on to the roof rack. No damage to car.
It wouldn't fit a 4 x 4 or MPV, but was fine on our Rover 800 and Granada.

They weren't cheap, but you may find one somewhere on e-bay or similar.

 

[gandy]

When I was a kid we had an "Otter", just under 12' and fibreglass, so quite a bit heavier than a Mirror. It was no problem carrying it on the roof of our Bedford CA family "car", and definitely less hassle than dealing with a trailer.

 

[jhr]

[ QUOTE ]
Bell Woodworking (the Mirror manufacturer) used to supply an "Easy Loader", which was a frame on runners that sat on the roof rack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Modern variant here but it's 300 quid, eek.

 

[Thamesider]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all of your very informative replies.
Would everybody agree that the Mirror is a good dinghy to learn to sail in or is there a better alternative, that may go on the roof of a car ?
Phil

[/ QUOTE ]
The Mirror's advantages are that they are cheap, there are loads of them around which means that spare parts and advice will be in plentiful supply, they can be sailed by a crew of two (subject to size) or single-handed, there is a very active class association and there will be some around at your local club if you want to race (which you may not want to initially, but it can add to the fun). They are more stable than some of the more modern dinghies, so you are less likely to capsize, but they are harder to right if you do capsize, and slower (but there is a handicapping system to even this out if you do take up racing). A mirror will also be easy to resell.
It's a case of horses for courses, but a guy I know who is early 40's and semi-unfit (like myself) recently packed in a beginners' dinghy sailing course because he was sent out in a more modern dinghy type which you sail kneeling (rather than sitting as in the Mirror) and although the boat was nominally faster than a mirror, it was considerably more "tippy" and he quickly became exhausted and demoralised at having to right the bloody thing five times a session. If you're young and fit, that may not bother you, but a Mirror will be a lot more forgiving.
A "Start Sailing Level 1 & 2" Course (which would be enough to get you sailing on your own in reasonable conditions) should be between £150 - £200, which is less than all but "Project" mirrors.

 

[Lakesailor]

Otter 59Kg. (Mirror 61 Kg) (Heron 63.7 kg) Maybe your family were all very strong. I know I couldn't lift my Heron on my own and with my neighbour's help it wasn't that easy. Bulky things to pick up.



Otter

 

[beancounter]

[ QUOTE ]
[
Modern variant here but it's 300 quid, eek.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ye Gods..

IIRC, they were about £80 in 1992.

Those were the days... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[newbuoy]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the others. I rebuilt a wooden Heron which was touted as being car-toppable when introduced. Only if you were a Russian weightlifter! Also there will be some occasion when it goes a bit wrong and you damage your car. Trailer is best.
The other thing I found a bit confusing is that you say
[ QUOTE ]
Before I go enrolling myself in sailing classes I thought I might have a go at a little self teaching to see if it is for me

[/ QUOTE ]but if you buy a boat you are more committed than if you go for some training. Are you sure it's because you don't want to turn up at the course as a complete novice?
I'm sure if you pop down to your local dinghy club someone will set your mind at rest and may even take you out for a one-on-one session.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess over the years I have adopted the 'self-teach' approach.
The reason I would like to learn to sail is 'to get away from it all' ! The thought of turning up with 40 other newbies, all making fools of themselves, doesn't excite me. And I know before you say it 'We all have to start somewhere'. I am sure there are many competent self taught sailers out there who do not need certificates to prove to others they are good.
I will be sailing for relaxation alone, not racing or Channel hopping ! What is the worst that could happen ? I get smacked in the face with the boom and get wet ? Surley that happens on training courses ! I guess though on a Course there is someone to pull you out the water !

Phil

 

[fireball]

If you are sensible enough and know the general principles then yup - you could teach yourself to sail ... it is generally quicker to learn the basics in a school - and the school is generally good fun - it would only take up a week (5 days?) and would push you in the right direction to start with.... and you'd be less likely to get yourself into difficulties.

I don't want to try and scare you, but a heck of a lot can go wrong when sailing - including falling out of the boat and being swept out to sea - so it is generally recommended to get some instruction in first ... !!

 

[Lakesailor]

Don't get me wrong. I am self-taught, well technically, as I've sailed with mates for a few years.
I just thought a one-to-one with someone would whet your appetite and give you the confidence to carry on.

I sold a sailboat to someone on another lake and I know he's still not up to speed, so I've offered to go out with him so he can see how to manage the bits and pieces.

 

[MikeBz]

[ QUOTE ]
Otter 59Kg. (Mirror 61 Kg) (Heron 63.7 kg)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mirror hull weight (minimum allowed) is 45.5kg (Wikipedia wrongly quotes 61kg). Our club had some Otters, they were *hugely* heavier than a Mirror. Ditto the Heron, much bigger and more solidly built.

Mike

 

[MikeBz]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks MikeBz, so you are saying that I may be able to get the Mirror on the roof bars with the launch trolley.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, put the trolley the right way up on the roof rack (may need to take wheels off) and then the boat on to the trolley. It doesn't make it any easier to get it up there, but it's by no means the heaviest of boats to car-top (there aren't many which are lighter even today).

[ QUOTE ]

Crabbing on the sailing club jetty, rowing in the boating pool and swimming in the out-door pool. Yes, good memories !

[/ QUOTE ]

Snap!

A Mirror is an excellent boat to learn to sail in - vast numbers of us did, and a great many still do.

Mike

 

[newbuoy]

That's what I need, a friend to show me the basics. Then good old experience ! Anyone live near Ramsgate and need a friend ?

Phil

 

[Thamesider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the others. I rebuilt a wooden Heron which was touted as being car-toppable when introduced. Only if you were a Russian weightlifter! Also there will be some occasion when it goes a bit wrong and you damage your car. Trailer is best.
The other thing I found a bit confusing is that you say
[ QUOTE ]
Before I go enrolling myself in sailing classes I thought I might have a go at a little self teaching to see if it is for me

[/ QUOTE ]but if you buy a boat you are more committed than if you go for some training. Are you sure it's because you don't want to turn up at the course as a complete novice?
I'm sure if you pop down to your local dinghy club someone will set your mind at rest and may even take you out for a one-on-one session.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess over the years I have adopted the 'self-teach' approach.
The reason I would like to learn to sail is 'to get away from it all' ! The thought of turning up with 40 other newbies, all making fools of themselves, doesn't excite me. And I know before you say it 'We all have to start somewhere'. I am sure there are many competent self taught sailers out there who do not need certificates to prove to others they are good.
I will be sailing for relaxation alone, not racing or Channel hopping ! What is the worst that could happen ? I get smacked in the face with the boom and get wet ? Surley that happens on training courses ! I guess though on a Course there is someone to pull you out the water !

Phil

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you could drown of course! If you learn to sail at a club, there are unlikely to be more than 20 people doing the same course and when you're on the water, depending on what sort of boat you're in, you'll be either on your own, with an instructor's boat v.close by or, in a two-hander, you'd likely start with one other crew member and an instructor. Believe me, most people will be so busy making their own mistakes that they won't even have time to notice your screw-ups. On a Level 1 & 2 course you will learn to sail the boat, recover from a capsize, pick up a MOB, come alongside, rig the boat, recover to a trailer etc. Sure, you could learn all that from an experienced sailor without doing a course, but it would be much harder to learn from a book. Once you've done your 4 days training, you could do what you like, but with the benefit of a solid grounding in the basics.

 

[newbuoy]

Your right. For less than £200.00 to learn the basics and possibly save your life ! Cheap !

Getting a little worried with some of the other comments though, i'm six foot one and a half and sixteen and a half stone ! Shouldn't have to much trouble throwing it on the roof of the car but is it going to sink when I get in it ?

Phil

 

[Lakesailor]

Got my figure from Noble Marine.
Confusion arises from this
Weight Hull 100lbs (45.5kg)
Weight Complete 135lbs (61.4kg)

So, yes it is a lighter hull. Presumably then a "large" sailor will have a proportionately greater effect on the reserve margin of the displacement.

 

[newbuoy]

Sorry LakeSailor thats gone right over my head !

Does that mean that with a 'Fatty' in it , it will be more stable and there is less chance of me getting wet ?

Phil

 

[BlueChip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't even think about it. You may succeed once or twice but the physical effort needed each time, on arrival and departure will quickly take the edge off the fun of sailing it.
I've just sold two of these which served us well for years but I wouldn't dream of hefting them up on the roof as eventually you will also damage the car's paintwork.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bell Woodworking (the Mirror manufacturer) used to supply an "Easy Loader", which was a frame on runners that sat on the roof rack. It could be run out to the end of the roof rack and tilted down to the ground. Lift the Mirror on to the inclined frame, the lift up the frame and run it back on to the roof rack. No damage to car.
It wouldn't fit a 4 x 4 or MPV, but was fine on our Rover 800 and Granada.

They weren't cheap, but you may find one somewhere on e-bay or similar.

[/ QUOTE ]

We carried a Mirror around for many holidays. Found the best way to get it on the roof was to lay it right way up at the back of the car, transom to the boot. Lift from the bow until the boat is standing on its transom and then gently lower it using the painter so the gunwhale is resting on the rear roof rack support. Then lift the transom and push it forward onto the roof. It helps if you have rollers on the roof rack but it can be done one handed ( I know I have done it many times)

 

[DinghyMan]

I did the two weekend RYA Dinghy course a few years ago, there were three of us on the course with an instructor each and we went out on a wide range of different dinghys.
Bought a wooden Enterprise and then moved up to bigger things after buying a yacht from a fellow forumite at Christmas.
I would recommend the course as you will learn a lot and also get very wet learning to capsize and right various dinghies.
I have a wooden Enterprise for sale but its on a road trailer as you ain't going to lift it onto any car roof.

 

[IanR]

Your location appears to be East Kent,

You could do a lot worse than have a visit to Bouch Beech SC at Edenbridge, all year round sailing and a friendly social club, they also rent out boats which you could use once you get a bit of practice. I suggest you have a chat to the members there and see if someone will take you out crewing first off

Also Bewl Valley and Chipstead

I learned in a mirror and it was fantastic experience and proably the cheapest sailing per foot ever, my advice FWIW is stay off tidal water until you are confident of boat handling.

Have fun and go for it!

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry LakeSailor thats gone right over my head !


[/ QUOTE ] And so will the Mirror!

I mean that as you move around in it you'll notice the water getting closer, but that someone a little slimmer wouldn't notice the effect to the same extent. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif