Minister statement on red diesel

bradtarga34 said:
What a shambles this is turning out to be. Surely presenting an invoice from the fill up point showing that you have fully paid fuel for propulsion should be sufficient, regardless of the fact that it is red should be sufficient? I can't see why this is becoming such an issue, apart from this pesky Belgians... It's not as though we are using discounted fuel for propulsion, only for heating and power generation.
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Or more like the pesky TWA TS in the so called UK government
 
In the interest of a full and fair debate.......

Why should diesel users not pay full duty? Petrol users do so surely diesel users should as well? :confused:

I can understand a lower rate for heating and things like that but we all use it for propulsion so its only fair we all pay the same.

A different perspective yes - but surely one that should be considered?

CJL
 
CJL said:
In the interest of a full and fair debate.......

Why should diesel users not pay full duty? Petrol users do so surely diesel users should as well? :confused:

I can understand a lower rate for heating and things like that but we all use it for propulsion so its only fair we all pay the same.

A different perspective yes - but surely one that should be considered?

CJL
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.....Lack of any roads in the middle of the river?

Otherwise based on your argument farmers and fishermen should also pay?
 
Why should diesel users not pay full duty? Petrol users do so surely diesel users should as well? :confused:




The kerfuffle is really down to the fact that many diesel boats were purchased on the somewhat optimistic premise that the price difference between diesel and petrol would remain forever.
On the Thames suspect the increase in diesel fuel costs over a boaty year is no more than a hundred pounds or so.
It will be the coastal boys who feel the urgent need to go everywhere at 20 knots who will feel the pain.
The only downside could be an influx of salt water boats taking refuge above the lock to mitigate escalating fuel costs.
 
oldgit said:
On the Thames suspect the increase in diesel fuel costs over a boaty year is no more than a hundred pounds or so.
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That may be true for those who potter out at weekends, but for folks who do longer trips - even in displacement boats - it's a lot more.

We (usually) do over a thousand miles a year and I reckon the additional cost would be around £500.

Don't forget that there are thousands of tinny things on the canals who use more fuel on power generation and heating proportionately than do river cruisers.
 
Much more serious underlying issues likely to emerge as this progresses (regresses?).

Don't expect much sympathy for big leisure boats with gas guzzling engines blasting around for fun - certainly not from the eco-warriors and environmentalists.

All this money we spend on boating is because we WANT to, not because we NEED to. I am certainly looking at the total cost of boating and measuring against reducing income, and I have two friends who have sold up motor cruisers in last year and bought flappies instead.

Any further reduction in number of boats on the Thames will mean less income for EA and commercial interests and higher charges for those of us that are left. Any significant increase in "leavers" will result in a glut of boats for sale and reduction in sale values - i.e. drop in asset value.

And don't ignore the fact that many boaters are pensioners and not getting any younger.

Watch this space ..........
 
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Must be missing something ere :)

We (usually) do over a thousand miles a year and I reckon the additional cost would be around £500.

My guesswork was aimed at the average Thames 7kph boater but....


....Red is say 130p (ignore the heating % fiddle) at the marina and is 145p at the garage. ie. 15p per litre difference.
To get an extra £500 quid per annum that umm.....is about 3300 litres a year what engines are lurking in that boat ...or am I missing something here as usual ?
 
apollo said:
.....Lack of any roads in the middle of the river?

Otherwise based on your argument farmers and fishermen should also pay?
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Yes - people who use it for propulsion should pay the duty. Why are boats/tractors different from trucks, cars etc?

Leisure users really haven't got a leg to stand on when you think about it.

CJL
 
People who use it for propulsion DO pay the duty. The 60/40 split is for non-propulsive use ie Heating and generation.

People who heat their homes with oil do not (and never have) had to pay road duty on the oil (which is capable of powering diesel engine).

A good question would be "Why do I have to pay duty on the petrol I put in my generator?"
 
A good question would be "Why do I have to pay duty on the petrol I put in my generator?"


Aha... so your the boat with the genny constantly ratttling away two berths up on a gorgeous sunny Sunday evening at Hampton court :):):)
 
oldgit said:
A good question would be "Why do I have to pay duty on the petrol I put in my generator?"


Aha... so your the boat with the genny constantly ratttling away two berths up on a gorgeous sunny Sunday evening at Hampton court :):):)
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And he does not have to pay tax on the fuel that it burns provided he fits a second, dedicated tank that it not connected to the main engine.
 
oldgit said:
A good question would be "Why do I have to pay duty on the petrol I put in my generator?"


Aha... so your the boat with the genny constantly ratttling away two berths up on a gorgeous sunny Sunday evening at Hampton court :):):)
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Nope, I have never moored there!
 
NEWS REPORT on yesterdays meeting between HMRC and representatives of RYA and BMF suggest that the issue of legality regarding use of red diesel outside UK waters may be clarified.

However, quick read gives no indication as to whether this will have any affect on the problems regarding other European countries - especially Belgium - taking action against anyone with red i their tanks.
 
boatone said:
NEWS REPORT on yesterdays meeting between HMRC and representatives of RYA and BMF suggest that the issue of legality regarding use of red diesel outside UK waters may be clarified.

However, quick read gives no indication as to whether this will have any affect on the problems regarding other European countries - especially Belgium - taking action against anyone with red i their tanks.
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The report is good news - apart from the explosive ministerial statement, the actual change in wording was not of the same tenor. However, it's always the public statement that carries weight in the public's eyes.

I find it appalling that the vast number of comments came from folks who use little fuel - mostly raggies and folks with petrol outboards - but those who do use a lot of diesel have remained silent. This gives the impression that "most" boaters wouldn't be bothered if they had to pay upwards of £1.70 per litre for fuel.

It was courageous of HMRC giving us the concession in the first place by taking the Directive's words at face value. IMHO it was based on the fact that UK fuel duties are based on road use and in theory are high to provide funds for roads, rather than just a general tax. Accordingly it's fair and equitable that non road use should pay less.

I echo B1's comments that the UK boating business is in direr straits than everything else and an increase of 50% in fuel costs would depress the market even more. I speak as a motorboater who cruises a lot in the year.
 
0.7 gall/hr :)

Certainly not a big issue for me compared to people with too many/too big engines who never venture further than Docklands, and it's hard to spare too much sympathy for people who have silly boats on the upper Thames.

I would imagine the Fairline/ Princess etc owners on the coast are all crapping themselves, as it's a big chunk of money though :(
 
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