Minister statement on red diesel

[534l4rk]

Written Ministerial Statement
Red diesel in private pleasure craft
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Chloe Smith): I am today announcing that from 1 April 2012 the use of red diesel to propel private pleasure craft will be allowed only within United Kingdom waters.
From 1 April anyone purchasing red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to make a declaration that the fuel will be used only within UK waters. The declaration will include an acknowledgement that the UK procedures do not affect any restrictions or prohibitions under the national laws of other European Member States regarding fuel used for propelling private pleasure craft.
These changes are being made following a challenge by the European Commission to the UK practice of allowing marked red diesel with full duty paid in private pleasure craft.
The changes announced today will ensure that red diesel can continue to be used in UK coastal waters and on the UK’s inland waterways in accordance with current procedures to the benefit of suppliers and users. It also ensures that users can continue to use red diesel at the rebated rate of duty on fuel used on board for domestic purposes, such as heating and cooking.
HMRC have published the draft legislation on the HMRC website today.
HM Treasury
20 February 2012

 

[Chris_d]

So effectively you are banned from going abroad unless you can flush your tanks through with expensive white, which isn't available anyway

 

[boatone]

When I saw the date I confess I suspected an early outbreak of the April Fool genre !

Sounds like an absolute shambles

Mind you, its drawn my attention to an MP I was not previously aware of ! Better keep an eye on her .... she might want the shirts off our backs !

More about Chloe

 

[534l4rk]

So effectively you are banned from going abroad unless you can flush your tanks through with expensive white, which isn't available anyway

It certainly does look difficult for going over. We usually cross via Ramsgate taking bunkers there but if as reputed that they are likely to condemn even traces of red dye I can't see how we can comply without major costs. Begium certainly looks like a no go area.

 

[sailorman]

It certainly does look difficult for going over. We usually cross via Ramsgate taking bunkers there but if as reputed that they are likely to condemn even traces of red it dye I can't see how we can comply without major costs. Begium certainly looks like a no go area.

You might be under a misunderstanding.
it will be all of the EU region that will be the same rules

 

[maby]

You might be under a misunderstanding.
it will be all of the EU region that will be the same rules

Indeed. We need to lobby the marinas to switch to white fuel as a matter of urgency.

I did some research relating to the EU directives yesterday and I don't think it is so terribly difficult to switch once unmarked fuel is available. The rules for measuring the presence of marking dye seem to indicate that you can get away with about 1 litre of marked fuel in around 100 litres of unmarked fuel. We need to start running our tanks down and keeping the levels relatively low till unmarked fuel becomes available. Then several partial fill-ups with running close to empty should be enough to become legal.

 

[534l4rk]

You might be under a misunderstanding.
it will be all of the EU region that will be the same rules

My comment on Belgiun relates to the fact that they seem to have been most critical of our policy. I have had no problems in France Belgium or Holland but I drew attention to the probability of this policy being enforced several months ago.

 

[rr_123]

Looks like petrol boats will come back into fashion

If I tried to cross the channel in my boat, the least of my worries would be red diesel in the tanks

 

[miket]

email to RYA and C Smith

With our departure for Europe planned at beginning May (currently 1,100 litres of red diesel on board) I have emailed both the above for confirmation that this is not an April Fool.

If not, it is yet another demonstration of the crass stupidity and total lack of knowledge of some of the inexperienced "people" (not my 1st choice!!) currently trying to run our country.

 

[maby]

With our departure for Europe planned at beginning May (currently 1,100 litres of red diesel on board) I have emailed both the above for confirmation that this is not an April Fool.

If not, it is yet another demonstration of the crass stupidity and total lack of knowledge of some of the inexperienced "people" (not my 1st choice!!) currently trying to run our country.

It's no joke - clearly documented on the HMRC web site. And they really had no choice - sooner or later the commission was inevitably going to find against us and we would have been faced with fines against the government. What we need is for the government to tell the EU that they accept things have got to change, give the marinas six months to sell what they are currently holding and refill with white fuel and go back to the commission saying "ok, we're doing what you want, will you cut UK boat owners a bit of slack and promise no fines for the next twelve months?"

 

[TrueBlue]

I don't see

whether it makes any difference to the current state of play:-

General description of the measure

The measure provides that red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft can only be used in UK waters. All purchasers of red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to sign a declaration to that effect. All purchasers will be made aware that if they travel outside UK waters they will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other Member States.

It's a sop to the Belgians, legitimatising what they are doing anyway. If the French and Dutch are not bothered they'll carry on as before?

Being charitable I see it as an attempt to stave off everybody having to use DERV.

 

[534l4rk]

RYA response

RYA challenges HMRC proposals
RYA clear that HMRC proposals present a real problem for recreational boaters.

The RYA has made it clear to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) that the proposals set out in its consultation documents published yesterday present a real problem for recreational boaters.

There is no legal prohibition on the use of red diesel for propelling private pleasure craft in international waters but the proposed amendment to the declaration to be made when buying fuel gives the impression that there is.

Gus Lewis Head of Government Affairs has been working with HMRC to ensure that boaters’ interests are protected in the Government’s negotiations with the European Commission (EC) over the use of duty-paid marked diesel. The RYA has made it clear that restricting the use of marked ‘red’ diesel to UK waters would not be acceptable and indeed made this point again only yesterday afternoon to HMRC.

Gus Lewis: “There is nothing in the Government’s proposals that would actually make the use of marked ‘red’ diesel for propelling a private pleasure craft outside UK waters unlawful. However, what it is attempting to do is to make recreational boaters sign a declaration acknowledging a legal situation that doesn’t exist under UK law.

“We have had a very positive working relationship with HMRC, which has worked hard over the years to accommodate recreational boating interests. However, the RYA cannot support this proposed amendment to the Hydrocarbon Oils Duties Act 1979. I have been in contact with HMRC today about the consultation documents and will keep boaters informed of progress".

 

[maby]

whether it makes any difference to the current state of play:-




It's a sop to the Belgians, legitimatising what they are doing anyway. If the French and Dutch are not bothered they'll carry on as before?

Being charitable I see it as an attempt to stave off everybody having to use DERV.

I think it may make a big difference. The Belgians have been the only country to actually penalise us, but the others seem to agree that our interpretation of the directive is incorrect. There has been a case before the Commission in which HMRC have been arguing in our favour, and the other countries have been awaiting the outcome before deciding what action to take. They may now take the new HMRC policy as an indication that they do not feel able to continue to defend the case at the Commission and start taking enforcement action as well.

 

[No Regrets]

So ungrateful those Belgians...

We baled the useless surrender monkeys out twice at least, and all they can do is shaft us

I shall not eat any more chocolate, or watch Poirot any more

 

[sailorman]

So ungrateful those Belgians...

We baled the useless surrender monkeys out twice at least, and all they can do is shaft us

I shall not eat any more chocolate, or watch Poirot any more

Cheers

 

[watson1959]

So ungrateful those Belgians...

We baled the useless surrender monkeys out twice at least, and all they can do is shaft us

I shall not eat any more chocolate, or watch Poirot any more

Surely it's not that serious?

Hmm....mind you, at least there's still Swiss

 

[No Regrets]

Exactly!

 

[VO5]

Written Ministerial Statement
Red diesel in private pleasure craft
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Chloe Smith): I am today announcing that from 1 April 2012 the use of red diesel to propel private pleasure craft will be allowed only within United Kingdom waters.
From 1 April anyone purchasing red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to make a declaration that the fuel will be used only within UK waters. The declaration will include an acknowledgement that the UK procedures do not affect any restrictions or prohibitions under the national laws of other European Member States regarding fuel used for propelling private pleasure craft.
These changes are being made following a challenge by the European Commission to the UK practice of allowing marked red diesel with full duty paid in private pleasure craft.
The changes announced today will ensure that red diesel can continue to be used in UK coastal waters and on the UK’s inland waterways in accordance with current procedures to the benefit of suppliers and users. It also ensures that users can continue to use red diesel at the rebated rate of duty on fuel used on board for domestic purposes, such as heating and cooking.
HMRC have published the draft legislation on the HMRC website today.
HM Treasury
20 February 2012

Isn't it disheartening to read such a crass and ignorant statement from a Government Minister ? ...Real nanny state stuff at its very worst.

 

[jtwebb]

So the conclusions are:
1) Politicians are prats but there is nothing new there.
2) We must not put red diesel in our tanks if we leave UK waters.
3) That means we cant go from Poole to Dartmouth or Falmouth to Milford haven for example?
4) Anti pollution rules and Marina rules mean we cant fill from cans.
5) Government rules stop Marinas from selling white diesel for commercial users.
6) Road white diesel is bad for our engines.
7) bet the RYA rolls over and gives in.

What have I missed?

 

[boatone]

So the conclusions are:
1) Politicians are prats but there is nothing new there.
2) We must not put red diesel in our tanks if we leave UK waters.
3) That means we cant go from Poole to Dartmouth or Falmouth to Milford haven for example?
4) Anti pollution rules and Marina rules mean we cant fill from cans.
5) Government rules stop Marinas from selling white diesel for commercial users.
6) Road white diesel is bad for our engines.
7) bet the RYA rolls over and gives in.

What have I missed?

ermmmm........ a solution?

What a shambles this is turning out to be - but not, I would suggest, an unexpected one given the crude (pun) nature of the existing arrangements.