Mini Transat v First 211

[antcollins]

Evening All,

A pub argument that I would like your thoughts on.

" A Beneteau First 211 is similar in hull shape(though not as wide at the stern or as deep a keel) as a mini transat boat. Minis are built to cross the Atlantic yet the First is RCD Class C. Could (note: not should) an unsinkable First 211 do an Atlantic crossing safely?"

I am not so sure. I have an f211 which I love, but it needs to be sailed all the time unlike a bigger boat that you can leave to get on with it for a few minutes at a go.

Cheers

Ant

 

[Georgio]

Evening All,

A pub argument that I would like your thoughts on.

" A Beneteau First 211 is similar in hull shape(though not as wide at the stern or as deep a keel) as a mini transat boat. Minis are built to cross the Atlantic yet the First is RCD Class C. Could (note: not should) an unsinkable First 211 do an Atlantic crossing safely?"

I am not so sure. I have an f211 which I love, but it needs to be sailed all the time unlike a bigger boat that you can leave to get on with it for a few minutes at a go.

Cheers

Ant

I'm not sure that many people would want to but I'm positive it is possible, especially with some modifications. I guess it comes down to your attitude to risk and comfort.

I'm afraid I am not a fan of RCD categories as it allows a builder to design and build to the letter of a rule rather than the reason behind the rule - hope that makes sense..

 

[antcollins]

I guess it comes down to your attitude to risk and comfort.

Hi, that's true but can you see a Pogo being comfortable?

I'm afraid I am not a fan of RCD categories as it allows a builder to design and build to the letter of a rule rather than the reason behind the rule - hope that makes sense..

Very clear, it's just like teachers, teaching to the tests.

 

[Boomshanka]

An Etap21i... very similar in many respects to mini-transat design is normally RCD Cat C... but a conversion kit that is essentially a 10cm (or so) high strip of laminated ply bolted into place where the lower washboard would go makes it Cat B

As an aside, an Etap 21i, especially with the fin keel rather than the tandem, is in my opinion (and past ownership) a very capable boat. One family sailed one round the world with their young kid on board.

 

[Georgio]

Hi, that's true but can you see a Pogo being comfortable?

I can assure you that they are not comfortable, especially upwind, but they are not designed to be. But the question was - can a F211 cross the pond?

Mini's have pretty hi-tech (and power hungry) self steering systems costing many ££££'s, (and kanting keels, water ballast, bowsprits, etc). I expect, like me, you have a S2000 or similar tiller pilot that would not last long when there is a lot of water about.

 

[lw395]

Have you read 'Shrimpy' the story of a bloke sailing around the world in a boat many on here would say was not really safe to go to Weymouth in?
Safety is as much about preparation and mindset as about design and equipment.

There is some truth in the idea that a really small boat justs bobs around in huge waves that will destroy a bigger vessel.

OTOH a mini carries a lot of ballast, and goes quick enough to get across the pond before you run out of food or water. They are also very very strong, being built of carbon and kevlar I think? All their gear is race tested and up to the job.

 

[Woodlouse]

The differences between a Mini and a First 211 are huge. For one thing, the Mini Transat class is not a one design. There are production boats made that are identical, but there are many, many others that vary very widely. Basically a mini transat can be any boat that was designed within a box 6.5 metres long, 3 metres wide, and I believe 14 metres high.

Also mini's have to go through righting tests, have to have escape hatches and have to prove themselves before being allowed across the atlantic.

Your First will have none of this.

However, thats not to say you wouldn't make it across the atlantic. Choose your moment to cross Biscay and then it's trades all the way, almost any boat could do it. People have crossed the atlantic in just about every imaginable craft, including I believe a modified WWII era jeep. What matters is how you do it, and what you allow for to happen on the crossing.

 

[ZEBEDEE]

If you met any of the Jester Challenge People you would come away with the thoughts that a bath tub could cross the pond. They left Plymouth in May bound for Newport Rhode Island and two or three of them were only 18' and a coribee is a very popular boat.

 

[CPD]

Choose your moment to cross Biscay and then it's trades all the way, almost any boat could do it.......

Hmmm, that rather depends on where in the States you are aiming for, which route you take, what time of year you want to go, and how far south you are prepared to go in order to pick up the trades.

 

[DownWest]

The Minis are designed to get there as fast as possible i.e. a race. Nothing to stop you making your own (Dudley Dix sells plans for a ply one) but that puts you in with all the high tec prototypes. F211 with some sensible mods could do fine to cross gently in the Jester style. Comfortable, of course not.
A

 

[Woodlouse]

Hmmm, that rather depends on where in the States you are aiming for, which route you take, what time of year you want to go, and how far south you are prepared to go in order to pick up the trades.

I have to say I'm not one to put myself in the position of 50 odd days of pounding into westerly depressions just to reach the eastern seaboard on a 21 footer. I'd go south, hit the trades, then sail north through the caribbean to where ever, then out to bermuda and then back across to the azores.

Leave early autumn, get back mid/late summer following year and a proper atlantic circuit with the minimum of discomfort and the maximum of fun.

How would you propose to do it? In less you like being wet and eating freeze dried food then going west across the north atlantic is a big ordeal at any time of year for almost any boat, let alone a little one.

Hell, even the Mini's do the trades down to Salvador or the Caribbean (forget where though).

The Jester Challenge is different. Those guys are hard core, like misery and pain and if the last race is any example, most won't make it. The last race had two finishers out of 10 starters IIRC.