chops
Member
any information regarding miller fife motorsalors , size between 30 =60 ft
apreciate any info.
thanks
apreciate any info.
thanks
miller fife motorsailor
- Thread starter chops
- Start date
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
They seemed to have quite a few in the 36' mark, wonderful old boats, if you can find a good one, a lot have been neglected, taken to the med and lived aboard, which they are ideal for, but not in the med, they were designeds and built for northern climes and don;t much like drying out, built to a high standard, by a yard now unfortunately no longer in existance, although the shed is still there. Don't know the designer, but John Bain was around the yard a bit earlier. The bigger ones, I have seen a 42' one I think, it was magnificent anyway. If you look at a fisher or colvic watson, you can see where there inspiration came from, whether it is an older design or not. I have only seen a couple for sale lately and a damn good wooden boat surveyor would be needed, with extensive experience. But lovely old boats if not messed around by amatuers too much. If you are thinking along the shape. design lines, and want something a little less maintenance intensive, look at the fisher 34 and 37, the 46 is a rare expensive beast, but again magnificent and huge!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ccscott49 on 27/07/2002 08:11 (server time).</FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ccscott49 on 27/07/2002 08:11 (server time).</FONT></P>
milltech
Well-Known Member
I'm also interested, having failed to bring my first choice to completion, a modest motor sailer is the next option. I'd prefer an Inchcape 32, they tended to have nice Gardner engines, a better layout, and by and large to have lasted better; although you do have your back open to the elements. I understand Fifers can be a bit suspect, and worth spending the money on a survey.
If you've ever read Jonathan Raban's book, "Coasting", he did his round Britain in a Fifer, called "Gosfield Maid" I think. A book in the grand tradition of Hillaire Belloc, getting a lot of politics and prejudice on paper, working out his boyhood influences, but the boaty bits are really good and his attitude to boating is my kind of boating.
Very nice cottage by the sea with a great traditional feel.
John
If you've ever read Jonathan Raban's book, "Coasting", he did his round Britain in a Fifer, called "Gosfield Maid" I think. A book in the grand tradition of Hillaire Belloc, getting a lot of politics and prejudice on paper, working out his boyhood influences, but the boaty bits are really good and his attitude to boating is my kind of boating.
Very nice cottage by the sea with a great traditional feel.
John
miket
Well-Known Member
Builder: James Miller of St Monance, Scotland.
Built fishing boats, then branched out into motor sailors, most productive period late 50's and 60's. Massive fishing boat construction. Have memories of one at Earls Court in early 60's. Interior drawers were more like a piece of antique furniture.
I would be surprised if a poorly maintained one would be beyond economic repair because of the massive construction.
One in Island Harbour, IOW, which looks rather sorry for itself.
Built fishing boats, then branched out into motor sailors, most productive period late 50's and 60's. Massive fishing boat construction. Have memories of one at Earls Court in early 60's. Interior drawers were more like a piece of antique furniture.
I would be surprised if a poorly maintained one would be beyond economic repair because of the massive construction.
One in Island Harbour, IOW, which looks rather sorry for itself.
Trevethan
Well-Known Member
Almost bought a 36 foot Miller Fifer last year, Sea Laughter. Lovely boat fairly well looked after.
One of the designs biggest problems was rot in the stern.
The ealier examples were more massively built that than newer. Usually larch on oak. A variety of engines were fitted. This one had a Gardner 4 or 5 LW in it.
I think some had a twin engine configuration.
Lovely boat seemed good in a sea and highly reliable in bad weather. We only took her up the Tamar a bit.
Unfortunately we git into a bidding war (we were buying through a broker and other buyer wasn't) and refused on principle to have to pay the broker's commission in addition to beating whatever the other guy offered.
The major drawback we found was space. No aft cabin so had to convert the saloon each night. IOther problem was head room. I am 6'5" so most boats have headroom problems!
One of the designs biggest problems was rot in the stern.
The ealier examples were more massively built that than newer. Usually larch on oak. A variety of engines were fitted. This one had a Gardner 4 or 5 LW in it.
I think some had a twin engine configuration.
Lovely boat seemed good in a sea and highly reliable in bad weather. We only took her up the Tamar a bit.
Unfortunately we git into a bidding war (we were buying through a broker and other buyer wasn't) and refused on principle to have to pay the broker's commission in addition to beating whatever the other guy offered.
The major drawback we found was space. No aft cabin so had to convert the saloon each night. IOther problem was head room. I am 6'5" so most boats have headroom problems!
milltech
Well-Known Member
Talking of John Bain
I think I've asked this before, but I seem to remember you posting the name of your boat once, and I was wondering if she was the John Bain designed T.S. ketch.
There's a real beauty of the same name that I once tried to buy...not enough readies at the time.
John
I think I've asked this before, but I seem to remember you posting the name of your boat once, and I was wondering if she was the John Bain designed T.S. ketch.
There's a real beauty of the same name that I once tried to buy...not enough readies at the time.
John
milltech
Well-Known Member
Talking of John Bain
I think I've asked this before, but I seem to remember you posting the name of your boat once, and I was wondering if she was the John Bain designed T.S. ketch.
There's a real beauty of the same name that I once tried to buy...not enough readies at the time.
John
I think I've asked this before, but I seem to remember you posting the name of your boat once, and I was wondering if she was the John Bain designed T.S. ketch.
There's a real beauty of the same name that I once tried to buy...not enough readies at the time.
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
Thats her, "Englander" a little different now, still the same fabric, but I extended her main by 3 meters and her main boom by 1.5 metrs, doubled the main also put an outer forestay with roller reefing yankee and a few other modifications to the rig, she now sails quite well, I would have loved her original owner and builder to see her now, I'm sure he would have approved. She is still a little under canvassed, my bruv told me to put 5 meters in the main, but I chickened out, he was right! She is now in magnificent order throughout, I've spent a lot of time, getting the varnish etc. up to stratch, as you can probably hear, I'm very proud of her. She is my last boat.
Thats her, "Englander" a little different now, still the same fabric, but I extended her main by 3 meters and her main boom by 1.5 metrs, doubled the main also put an outer forestay with roller reefing yankee and a few other modifications to the rig, she now sails quite well, I would have loved her original owner and builder to see her now, I'm sure he would have approved. She is still a little under canvassed, my bruv told me to put 5 meters in the main, but I chickened out, he was right! She is now in magnificent order throughout, I've spent a lot of time, getting the varnish etc. up to stratch, as you can probably hear, I'm very proud of her. She is my last boat.
milltech
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
If you can make a Motor Sailer sail then I think you have everything! My preference for them as a breed is that all my boats must have "a shed on deck". When the weathers 'orrible, as it often is, I like to be able to sit with my gin and my book and look out at the world. Even the most used boats are 99% of the time on moorings of some sort.
I loved Englander, she is definitely in my top 10 of boats I would like to have owned. I have owned No. 1 on that list, a Herd and Mackenzie MFV Yacht, (if that name means anything to you), called "Andrea Ferrara", formerly Moss Rose. Twin Gardners and a ketch rig that wouldn't take you anywhere, even in a full gale, but a wonderful boat nevertheless. Down the North Sea in a 9 yours truly had very much "had enough" but my confidence in the boat was total after that experience.
Due to a financial setback last year I'm after something more modest for the time being.
John
If you can make a Motor Sailer sail then I think you have everything! My preference for them as a breed is that all my boats must have "a shed on deck". When the weathers 'orrible, as it often is, I like to be able to sit with my gin and my book and look out at the world. Even the most used boats are 99% of the time on moorings of some sort.
I loved Englander, she is definitely in my top 10 of boats I would like to have owned. I have owned No. 1 on that list, a Herd and Mackenzie MFV Yacht, (if that name means anything to you), called "Andrea Ferrara", formerly Moss Rose. Twin Gardners and a ketch rig that wouldn't take you anywhere, even in a full gale, but a wonderful boat nevertheless. Down the North Sea in a 9 yours truly had very much "had enough" but my confidence in the boat was total after that experience.
Due to a financial setback last year I'm after something more modest for the time being.
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
I know the Herd & Mckenzie breed well! Who with a passion for wooden big wood motor/sailers/MFV's doesn't, saw a beaut in St.Antonio and seem to remember Andrea Ferrara, aswell. I once asked my brother what wet weather gear to buy, he said you already have the finest, I said I don't have any, He said "wheelhouse"! what about when I have to go outside "crew" he said, fair enough I guess! He has a gaff yawl, converted 46' watson lifeboat, which he sailed around the world and all over it aswell! One of the finest sea boats I have ever been on, called "Swn y Mor", ex St. Davids boat. But "Englander takes some beating. I also saw a John Bain, built at silvers, similar to Englander, ketch rigged, but 76' she was a monster, needed quite a bit of work, about £60k I would guess, then you really would have a magnificent ship, she's lying in Almerimar, just having her decks recaulked, a monster job, but well worth it, mind you the guy doing it isn't really a shipwright type and quite a few of the plugs need pulling and re-doing. Enough I can talk all day about wooden boats and Bains especially!
I know the Herd & Mckenzie breed well! Who with a passion for wooden big wood motor/sailers/MFV's doesn't, saw a beaut in St.Antonio and seem to remember Andrea Ferrara, aswell. I once asked my brother what wet weather gear to buy, he said you already have the finest, I said I don't have any, He said "wheelhouse"! what about when I have to go outside "crew" he said, fair enough I guess! He has a gaff yawl, converted 46' watson lifeboat, which he sailed around the world and all over it aswell! One of the finest sea boats I have ever been on, called "Swn y Mor", ex St. Davids boat. But "Englander takes some beating. I also saw a John Bain, built at silvers, similar to Englander, ketch rigged, but 76' she was a monster, needed quite a bit of work, about £60k I would guess, then you really would have a magnificent ship, she's lying in Almerimar, just having her decks recaulked, a monster job, but well worth it, mind you the guy doing it isn't really a shipwright type and quite a few of the plugs need pulling and re-doing. Enough I can talk all day about wooden boats and Bains especially!
milltech
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
I'm a kind of Herd and Mackenzie Anorak! I always wanted to own one and ended up with the biggest and last built, but like eyes being larger than tummys the cost of maintaining her became too great and she had to go. If I had contented myself with one of the 50 footers I'd still have her now!
I know where most of them are, though funnily enough I've lost track of my own boat AF. I sold her to a German couple who did a mostly excellent refit with the exception, in my view, of installing a three phase electrical system and going totally electric on board. I like peace and quiet aboard and the eternal throb of a genny I hate, valuable for a few minutes but hateful for 24 hours. They put her up for sale but whether she was ever sold I could not say. Went round the UK twice in her, (well almost round, cutting off the top through the Caledonian).
Bultjer, Malahide, Romsdal, all similar breeds that seemed to have disappeared as a style of yacht. I also like Inchcapes, and should have purchased "Delphis" the 50 foot Inchcape built 20 years after the others in about 89. The right boats always come up for sale at the wrong time!
John
I'm a kind of Herd and Mackenzie Anorak! I always wanted to own one and ended up with the biggest and last built, but like eyes being larger than tummys the cost of maintaining her became too great and she had to go. If I had contented myself with one of the 50 footers I'd still have her now!
I know where most of them are, though funnily enough I've lost track of my own boat AF. I sold her to a German couple who did a mostly excellent refit with the exception, in my view, of installing a three phase electrical system and going totally electric on board. I like peace and quiet aboard and the eternal throb of a genny I hate, valuable for a few minutes but hateful for 24 hours. They put her up for sale but whether she was ever sold I could not say. Went round the UK twice in her, (well almost round, cutting off the top through the Caledonian).
Bultjer, Malahide, Romsdal, all similar breeds that seemed to have disappeared as a style of yacht. I also like Inchcapes, and should have purchased "Delphis" the 50 foot Inchcape built 20 years after the others in about 89. The right boats always come up for sale at the wrong time!
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
John,
The german couple did put her up for sale, but they wanted lots & lots of dosh for her, too much in my opinion and if I'd l;ooked at her, all electric would have put me right off, I agree with you about genny drone, even with a sound shield. I did consider looking at her, but would not have been interested at that price! She was and still is no doubt, a beautiful example of the breed. Very fond of inchcapes myself, had a look at a couple before I found Englander again, (I've known her for almost 24 years, before I mangaed to buy her). But as I said shes my last boat, when I can't manage to sail her anymore or whats more important maintain her, then I'll let somebody else cherish her.
Colin.
John,
The german couple did put her up for sale, but they wanted lots & lots of dosh for her, too much in my opinion and if I'd l;ooked at her, all electric would have put me right off, I agree with you about genny drone, even with a sound shield. I did consider looking at her, but would not have been interested at that price! She was and still is no doubt, a beautiful example of the breed. Very fond of inchcapes myself, had a look at a couple before I found Englander again, (I've known her for almost 24 years, before I mangaed to buy her). But as I said shes my last boat, when I can't manage to sail her anymore or whats more important maintain her, then I'll let somebody else cherish her.
Colin.
milltech
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
Re-reading your post I have to admit to a certain eccentricity in that I was going to buy a Watson lifeboat, but I think the owner is being unrealistic and having waited for a year in the hope he would modify the price to meet me, I must start to look elsewhere. His boat has been for sale now for about three years so I don't think it's me being tight!
John
Re-reading your post I have to admit to a certain eccentricity in that I was going to buy a Watson lifeboat, but I think the owner is being unrealistic and having waited for a year in the hope he would modify the price to meet me, I must start to look elsewhere. His boat has been for sale now for about three years so I don't think it's me being tight!
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: Talking of John Bain
A lot of people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to lifeboats, they all think they are worth a fortune, because they cost so much to build and they have monster equipment, load of balls, they are old lifeboats! Unless one is talking about Swn Y Mor, she's a little different! If you're ever in Glassn dock Lancaster go and have a look at her, if she's in port!.
A lot of people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to lifeboats, they all think they are worth a fortune, because they cost so much to build and they have monster equipment, load of balls, they are old lifeboats! Unless one is talking about Swn Y Mor, she's a little different! If you're ever in Glassn dock Lancaster go and have a look at her, if she's in port!.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Just seen in YM august edition, page 148, 46' miller fifer for sale £85K. Looks very nice, with all the right gear and a fairly big rig, worth looking at perhaps?
milltech
Well-Known Member
Yes I saw that, do you think the wheelhouse is original?
John
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
I,m not sure, but as it has McGuer masts, it may have had the wheelhouse modified there, lengthened maybe? I know McGruers would modify the old wheelhouses on the silver ormidales, by lengthening them. The bulwarks also seem a little strange, never seen them cut away in the centre like that, but I've only ever seen one other, wwhich was a looooooooong time ago.
Trevethan
Well-Known Member
A search for boats for sale in YBW will also pull back and 39 footer. Though seems slightly over-priced.
milltech
Well-Known Member
It was the forward sloping windows a la Fisher that had me wondering, every other one I've seen has the backward slope of an Inchcape, Spey, H&M, and every other Scottish trawler style yacht of their era.
There's a 40 footer for sale in the med, originally ordered by Anthony Quayle, she it mahogany, teak, and oak which is pretty unusual so maybe she will have survived the savage sun. Where would each be? I guess teak below the waterline, mahogany for the topsides and oak for the frames but I don't know. Iroko decks replaced 1999. 4LW in the basement might be a tad underpowered.
John
There's a 40 footer for sale in the med, originally ordered by Anthony Quayle, she it mahogany, teak, and oak which is pretty unusual so maybe she will have survived the savage sun. Where would each be? I guess teak below the waterline, mahogany for the topsides and oak for the frames but I don't know. Iroko decks replaced 1999. 4LW in the basement might be a tad underpowered.
John
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
I've seen some with the "trawler" type windows, she would definitely be teak below, mahog above and oak frames. The 4LW might not have a bunch of horsepower, but the torque would pull houses down!! I would like to see this 40'er, just for interests sake, I'll have a search around.