Milk white diesel

[boatbuilder]

I am getting white diesel in the filters and nothing will run. I suspect water in the tanks , as despite telling the owner not to use the main tank, he put 800l in it. Having fixed the fuel transfer system I have put some of this in the day tank.
If it as I think does anybody know of a contractor in the SW that can drain the tanks and steam clean them.
The strange thing is that even though I left a sample to settle over night nothing happened, it was still the same colour.
I have warned the owner that his wallet will be hurt. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[fluffc]

[ QUOTE ]

The strange thing is that even though I left a sample to settle over night nothing happened, it was still the same colour.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is 100% water, then there isn't ain diesel to settle on top of the water - so it'll all be clear.

VERY URGENT ACTION required. 100% water in a diesel engine is bad news.

 

[boatbuilder]

Ran the engine and genny up with fresh diesel from a can after changeing filters.

 

[brianrunyard]

Could it be Biofuel??

NOT clear like water, clue in "Subject" "Milk White".

Could it be a biofuel? something like: THIS

Last sentence:
"Because the fuel is an emulsion, consisting of hydrated ethanol droplets permanently suspended in diesel fuel, it has the unusual feature of being milky white."

 

[boatbuilder]

Re: Could it be Biofuel??

Its bog standard red from QAB , and the sample was still as white after 24 hrs

 

[duncan]

Re: Could it be Biofuel??

whilst I can't help the issue could you please please post the result when you find it as you would appear to have found a way to turn red into white.................. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[robind]

Source the supplier of the "Diesel" is it perhaps heating fuel, or road diesel? find the area of ingress of expected water? and cure leak. pump it all out into borrowed 45 gallon drums and clean the tanks out and flush the tanks and dry them with a hot air dryer! rig up a water trap or borrow a water separator and sample the content of the drums if diesel, pump 50 % of the content back into the tanks leaving the rest to settle for a while longer I suppose/guess that the owner hasn`t filled the diesel tank with water? and that is all that is in there? check the contents of the water tanks????

 

[boatbuilder]

Water tanks are full of water and make fine tea, I have the bill from QAB and its deff red.

 

[philip_stevens]

What you are describing - milky white - is what we used to get when flushing out fuel tanks before a drydock, when access was required in certain tanks - (big ships, containerships). A chemical was added to the tanks, filled with water, steam heated (and the fumes were strong smelling), and then pumped ashore.

Is it possible that either QAB or their supplier has taken on a load of emulsified fuel from a ships' tank cleaning, and made a mistake by supplying it or tried to palm it off.

SBC could give you a definitive answer if he sees this thread. Nigel, where are you???

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
What you are describing - milky white - is what we used to get when flushing out fuel tanks before a drydock, when access was required in certain tanks - (big ships, containerships). A chemical was added to the tanks, filled with water, steam heated (and the fumes were strong smelling), and then pumped ashore.

Is it possible that either QAB or their supplier has taken on a load of emulsified fuel from a ships' tank cleaning, and made a mistake by supplying it or tried to palm it off.

SBC could give you a definitive answer if he sees this thread. Nigel, where are you???

[/ QUOTE ]

First thought was - Cloud Point - but we are not in winter. Second was emulsified fuel - but unlikely as it needs something to start it off .... third was BioD - but that is stabilised and tested for stability - we do that !! OUCH !

Really a strange one .. without access to tank and content - I can't answer as to what it is ...

I think it unlikely that ships MDO has crossed the market ground .. as it usually goes into slop recycling. A lucrative market.

Red Diesel is rare also to have BioD in it ... but it could have another component that may have failed .. it's a cheap bulking by-product from some refinerys - used to increase lubrication quality of diesels and also bulk out - as its cheap. Some volumes are suspect and we are also involved in use of it in some markets ... not our choice I add - it's clients choice.

Sorry without a sample on the lab bench I can't help. For you to give to a similar lab as mine would be expensive ... I mean hundreds - even up to 1000 pounds for a full spectrum analysis ...

If you do want to go that route - or you want to send a sample about 1 litre to me ... PM me please ... I will check it as a service for you .. you pay p&p .. I'll sort this end ... (this is NOT an invitation to all to send me samples !!!! )

 

[boatbuilder]

This fuel was bought at Queen annes battery. A large marina in Plymouth. I have not heard of any complaints from other boats. When dipped the tank leaves a red stain on stick, allthough the bottom of the stick looks a bit watery.
And it is not the pumps on the engines that are whipping air into the diesel as the sight glasses are before the pups and that is where it appears first.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
This fuel was bought at Queen annes battery. A large marina in Plymouth. I have not heard of any complaints from other boats. When dipped the tank leaves a red stain on stick, allthough the bottom of the stick looks a bit watery.
And it is not the pumps on the engines that are whipping air into the diesel as the sight glasses are before the pups and that is where it appears first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arrrrr Turbidity ! A test I devised with a very large Oil Trader Company years ago .....

Take one litre of diesel sample. Divide into 2 1/2 litres. Seal and stand one to one side. Take other and pour into blender. Now fast speed for 1 minute. Stop and see how long to go clear. Keep lengthening time of blending till clear fails to appear ...

I have done that test so many times and NEVER had a diesel sample fail !

Anyway ... back to problem ...

So dip stick comes up red. Then thats normal.

Bottom of stick looks a bit watery ... do you mean you can physically see or detect water - or you imagine there is ? Unless a significant amount of water present even one of my inspectors would have trouble determining water present by feel or sight.

Diesel appears white at filter ............. why ?? What happens in line before filter ....

And earlier you said that it stays white - doesn't settle out.

Has any chemical agents been in that tank before filling ? Has owner tried some concoction / home brew to clean it prior to filling ?

Try this ... get brown fine stocking and white coffee filters .. Take some samples and pour through each of the filters and see what is collected ... if sediments / solids - I'm interested .. you could dry in the filter medium and bag the filter with seds ... tape up to not leak ! and post as envelope job to me ...

??????????????????????????????

 

[boatbuilder]

He told me he added some soltron, indeed there is half a bottle in the spares locker.
The fuel comes from a line from the top of the tank through a cav filter then onto engine lift pump then fine filter then injector pump.

 

[Kawasaki]

Re: Could it be Biofuel??

Duncan --- You Are A Tw%t

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[comoxlarry]

I got a small amount of water in my diesel last year and it cost me a blown injecter pump and a complete rebuild on an old Volvo MD6. Get rid of white fuel no matter how much trouble it is!

 

[Guest]

Really how many filters etc. he has is not much use to me ... as without seeing inside all of it and asample of fuel ????

The soltron - now that may have a clue - but then how much did he add ?

Why ? Many additives use "carrier" solvents ... there's all sorts in there - olefins and amines etc. Depending on the additive of course. Soltron I'm not sure about as we never use it and a certain seller who used to be here didn't send the tester on to me ... But it may be that over winter standing and if temp dropped sufficiently it may have crystalized ... but the spare bottle would also show it. The problem with crystalized additive is that it will not recombine without serious work - often introduction of a solvent.

BUT the above is only a comment and probably not the case here. Plus the amount of soltron they advise to add to fuel, albeit gross overkill (They have to protect themselves by such overdosing) - shouldn't be enough to make the fuel milky ??

There is a test that is done on Lub Oil that may be possible here - but is not something for the faint-hearted !! It's the "crackle test". With Lub oil you want to know if any water in the oil ... so you drop a small drop from a pipette onto a "Hot-Plate" ... yes a standard electric Hot-Plate. If water is present - it "crackles" - if not it doesn't ! It can spit and can be risky if you are not shielded etc. With diesel the plate temp has to be lower of course but still hot enough to cause the water to "crackle" ....

But please all you schoolboys out there !! Don't do it ! Only if you can be sure all are safe !! The test is NOT designed for Diesel as its lower flash point (ignition) than Lub Oil makes it dangerous without proper shielding .....
The proper way to do it is via boiling flask and condenser system ... to separate water out ... using a carrier liquid that takes up the water and boils off at lower temp than the oil.

To be honest I'm typing out thoughts more than solutions !!

What would I do ? I would drain of the tank ... flush out tank and lines with a solvent such as gasoline ... drain and let it ventilate to free air and dry. Flush through system with fresh diesel. Then see what you have.

Old diesel ....... leave quietly to see what happens - let me know later what you observe.

I did ask my lab - answer ... Without a sample ? Who knows ? Sorry !

But they started on about Red Dye / Yellow Marker us usually organic and the red part could turn colour under certain conditions. Also mentioned that possible trapped che,mical or additive in fliter / line / bottom of tank at suction ?

It really is guessing ..

What is condition of fuel at QAB ?

 

[boatmike]

HE TOLD ME HE ADDED SOME SOLTRON
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Excellent!!
QED
I had a Superyacht in at Antibes 4 years ago with water contamination and tried adding Soltron to an extracted sample. It may be good at breaking down biological contamination but it seemed to act as an emulsifying agent on water. Haven't been near the stuff since. Eventually got a bowser alongside and emptied tanks, had them properly cleaned (yeuk were they bad) Contractor passed fuel through filters and allowed it to settle after which we were able to salvage 80% of it. Glad we didn't treat all of it with Soltron!
p.s. Agree solvent clean tanks rather than steam clean.

 

[duncan]

I believe soltron's carrier is kerosene

 

[boatbuilder]

Job now subbed out to specialist company, I will let you know the outcome.

 

[Birdseye]

I'd be interested in knowing. Just by co-incidence I cracked my injectors this week for another reason and was surprised that the toilet paper I mopped up the fuel with showed no red dye. There is only red diesel in the tank and red at the bottom of the main fuel filter. Over wintered fuelk with some fuel set additive in it, along with injector cleaner.

Engine ran fine so I simply dismissed what I saw an ageing eye sight.