Migrant Problems

[Assassin]

Have you had a problem with migrants?

There are now rumblings from boaters of all types complaining about migrants coming across the channel from France, and while this is seemingly an issue I don't want this to turn into an issue about the rights or wrongs of migrants coming illegally to the UK.

It would appear that commercial boats are having problems with these immigrants as they are now crossing the channel in inflatable boats which are severely overloaded, have no lighting, occupants are wearing dark clothing, they are crossing the busiest shipping lanes, and they have no boating skills at all, and lets be realistic, boats aren't fitted with Ferodo. For every boat that successfully crosses the channel means a quick phone call back to the gangs shipping them over means they see this as a successful tactic and this encourages more of these boats to cross the channel which increases the potential for pleasure boaters to have issues with them.

Has anyone here who regularly crosses the channel had problems with these boats, and what are peoples thoughts on this.

 

[Whitelighter]

My only thought is should you encounter one I would be very cautious about offering any assistance.
The most I would do is stand by at a reasonable distance and communicate with the authorities.

Certainly would not get involved by taking anyone on board

 

[oldgit]

No Problem ?

“Article 98 (1) of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) requires masters of vessels sailing under the flag of signatory States to render assistance to those in distress at sea. It is primarily a State duty fulfilled by the master of the vessel.8 May 2015.

 

[Poignard]

Re: No Problem ?

“Article 98 (1) of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) requires masters of vessels sailing under the flag of signatory States to render assistance to those in distress at sea. It is primarily a State duty fulfilled by the master of the vessel.8 May 2015

Good find, OG! Food for thought there.

 

[Irish Rover]

Re: No Problem ?

I live and do most of my boating in the stretch of the Aegean which separates Turkey from Samos and occasionally a bit further north between Izmir and Chios which are notorious migrant smuggling areas. I've witnessed both the Turkish Coast Guard and Frontex intercept migrants but I've never actually come across otherwise undetected migrant boats. I frequently wonder what I'd do if I did come across a migrant boat. Most likely I'd change course and mind my own business if they didn't appear to be in any trouble or danger. If I thought they were in any danger I'd like to think I'd go to their assistance immediately after issuing a Mayday.

 

[jrudge]

Re: No Problem ?

“Article 98 (1) of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (UNCLOS) requires masters of vessels sailing under the flag of signatory States to render assistance to those in distress at sea. It is primarily a State duty fulfilled by the master of the vessel.8 May 2015.

This was subject to a long debate on here when the med crisis was in full swing.

You are not obliged to put you own vessel in danger - and being swamped by unknown migrants would qualify.

The consensus was radio, hold off etc. You could also throw life vests etc.

 

[dpb]

My only thought is should you encounter one I would be very cautious about offering any assistance.
The most I would do is stand by at a reasonable distance and communicate with the authorities.

Certainly would not get involved by taking anyone on board

+1.....though I suppose it may depend a little on the number of people on board and the size of ones own boat. i.e. you would not want 30 people trying to get on board a 25ft sportscruiser........but then some start swimming towards you and some drown and more try.......continue to stand off for your own safety?.........or go closer in to help and risk being overwelmed?

 

[Firefly625]

+1.....though I suppose it may depend a little on the number of people on board and the size of ones own boat. i.e. you would not want 30 people trying to get on board a 25ft sportscruiser........but then some start swimming towards you and some drown and more try.......continue to stand off for your own safety?.........or go closer in to help and risk being overwelmed?

I think you are spot on. These are desperate people. When I read that I immediately thought of that risk.

My suggestion if anyone were to spot such a boat would be a pass at speed close enough to see with binoculars to confirm suspicions, a call to the coastguard and then stand by at a large distance away maintaining sight of casualty with binoculars! Any sign of people attempting to swim to you launch your lift raft. and trail behind your boat.

These folk could try and overpower you if they got on board, probably unlikely, but it is a risk. However the last thing anyone of us want is the risk of these people drowning attempting to get to our boats.

 

[Solent Sailor]

There is rendering assistance, and there is rendering assistance. Standing by and alerting the proper authorities is rendering assistance - unless they're about to go under, in which case more interventionist steps may be required.

Personally, I would consider launching my dinghy, and possibly liferaft, long before I'd commit to having them on board my vessel. That would be an absolute last resort to save certain loss of life - not just in case.

 

[vodzurk]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

Rendering assistance... that could (imho) be interpreted as putting the call in to CG and maintaining distance.

If their boat goes under... that's a nightmare situation. Personally, I'd put out a distress call, get my kayak inflated, life vests, and anything else I have to offer bouyancy (I'm coastal - don't presently have tender or liferaft), get it on my longest line and loop around them to get it to them.

Under absolutely no circumstances would I let anybody onboard, or get to a position where they could. The safety of my wife is too important than to risk people who could then overpower us. Although definitely an awful situation, you don't know their story or the lengths they might go to. And the first rule of lifesaving... NEVER, EVER put your own life at risk.

Such a situation and decision would no doubt haunt me every day for the rest of my life.

 

[gordmac]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

What do they do with the boats when they get to England?

 

[Seastoke]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

What do they do with the boats when they get to England?

well it made me think when I saw a honwave on the news as I sold mine to an Asian guy who had no idea what to do with it

 

[C08]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

I perhaps wrongly had the impression that some of these dinghys were being dropped off shore a few miles by larger, maybe fishing boats. I am sure that there are hardened and armed criminal people smugglers escorting the migrants. I hope never to have to make that choice.

 

[penberth3]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

What do they do with the boats when they get to England?

In theory, impounded as part of a crime investigation. No charges - returned to owner. Otherwise - left to rot and eventually auctioned or destroyed.

 

[anterak]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

Like Irish Rover i used to navigate in the KUSADASI-SAMOS-DIDIM-KALIMNOS-PATMOS-BODRUM-AGATHONISI area.

Since 2015 now, authorities and coast guard year after year increase their patrol.
Each summer i have control on the sea by one of them and it's annoying because your are in holiday, you don"t have lot of time and you must face greek, turkish swedish, german, portugees coas guart suspicion and stress each time even if you just leave 15 min ago coast guard office at the harbour, they are crazy.

In fact i got more issu with authorities than with migrant. I saw plenty of them, in Kusadasi city, in the beaches inside national park of Dilek just in front of Samos island, where i spent with my family nights alone in the cove with migrant on the beach, no one came to my boat or even talk with us.
I also met them in the sea, some time they were catch by coastguard sometime not. We already have so much problem with authorities with doing anything and just follow the law that i even don't want to thing just 1 seconde if i'll help a migrant boat, also i prefer keep my route.

With emergency state also in Turkey, political instability and all the problem above we also take the radical solution to move our boat to ... Athens.
I hope to take back one day my boat to Turkey but i don't know when.

 

[Irish Rover]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

Like Irish Rover i used to navigate in the KUSADASI-SAMOS-DIDIM-KALIMNOS-PATMOS-BODRUM-AGATHONISI area.

Since 2015 now, authorities and coast guard year after year increase their patrol.
Each summer i have control on the sea by one of them and it's annoying because your are in holiday, you don"t have lot of time and you must face greek, turkish swedish, german, portugees coas guart suspicion and stress each time even if you just leave 15 min ago coast guard office at the harbour, they are crazy.

In fact i got more issu with authorities than with migrant. I saw plenty of them, in Kusadasi city, in the beaches inside national park of Dilek just in front of Samos island, where i spent with my family nights alone in the cove with migrant on the beach, no one came to my boat or even talk with us.
I also met them in the sea, some time they were catch by coastguard sometime not. We already have so much problem with authorities with doing anything and just follow the law that i even don't want to thing just 1 seconde if i'll help a migrant boat, also i prefer keep my route.

With emergency state also in Turkey, political instability and all the problem above we also take the radical solution to move our boat to ... Athens.
I hope to take back one day my boat to Turkey but i don't know when.

I have to say I think the Turkish, Greek and Frontex coast guard patrols are doing a good job and I never resent being stopped or questioned. In general they are friendly and professional and their checks take no more than a few minutes. I never felt I was under any suspicion or treated as if I was under suspicion. From the radio traffic I hear when I'm aboard there appears to be excellent communication between the Turkish Coast Guard and Frontex. Personally I can't imagine why any boater would have any fears or concerns about being in Turkey but each to their own.

 

[anterak]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

Turkish coast guard know very well my boat because my basecamp was Setur Kusadasi Marina, i used to fill gazoline very oftenly, gas station is just next to theirs headquarters. I had only one issued while fishing on the front of the marina during winter time, a young turkish chief sent us back to the harbour because he didn't like the red color of our boat's turkish flag !! Also he controled our paper during half hour pretending that we were coming illegaly from the sea while our passport were carrying Izmir airport entry stamp ! His Non-commissioned Officer ask with a smile us to be patient

Last issue was from german coast guard from Samos. We were just leaving Pythagorio harbour and coast guard desk with all exit formalities targeting to enter back to Turkey. On our way, after 15 minutes close to Karlovasi Cape i saw a boat coming with high speed on us high siren noise. Just think that i'm on my boat with my 2 daughters (10 and 12 years old), my wife and my yorkshire. This stupid german coast guard stop us, on the middle of the see, of course they don't care about if our fiber glass boat touch their steel boat with big waves just shaking us hardly. They ask again our belgian identy card to verify. They take tons of picture, i shout them that they don't have the right we didn't do anything wrong or illegal, they never mind. Where i can doubt about their professionalism is that one the the coast guard ask me if the boat name "Ocean Perf" was the name of my boat, i thought in my head that he was very stupid, because it's was the brand's name of my lifesaving board that i was carrying on starboard of the boat!!!).

We use to have this kind of problem mostly because were are cruising at 21 Knots, it seem suspect to them.
We don't have fear about Turkey, but instability, every voting or the emergency state which can trow you to jail only for a bad tweet about president all that thing make us thing that maybe we will not enjoy our boat next summertime, make us take this decision to move to quieter country. Again i'm sad about it, and i hope that one day i'll go back.

 

[anterak]

I'm adding that i understand the unjustify weight on the shoulder of this border coast guards with all populist ideology from most of stupid european politics making migrant the ultimate danger of our society !!! We loose yesterday our belgian gouvernement only about migrant question on ONU General Assembly at Marrakech.

 

[Irish Rover]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

Turkish coast guard know very well my boat because my basecamp was Setur Kusadasi Marina, i used to fill gazoline very oftenly, gas station is just next to theirs headquarters. I had only one issued while fishing on the front of the marina during winter time, a young turkish chief sent us back to the harbour because he didn't like the red color of our boat's turkish flag !! Also he controled our paper during half hour pretending that we were coming illegaly from the sea while our passport were carrying Izmir airport entry stamp ! His Non-commissioned Officer ask with a smile us to be patient

I had forgotten about him! There was a notorious young officer in Kuşadası around 2 years ago - I think he was on Patrol Boat 311. He was exceptionally officious and there were many complaints about him from local and foreign boaters. I haven't seen him around for more than 18 months so I imagine he was moved on. I had a run in with him myself but I assure you he is in no way typical of the coast guard personnel I generally encounter.

 

[anterak]

Re: Migrant Problems - What would you do Skip?

I had forgotten about him! There was a notorious young officer in Kuşadası around 2 years ago - I think he was on Patrol Boat 311. He was exceptionally officious and there were many complaints about him from local and foreign boaters. I haven't seen him around for more than 18 months so I imagine he was moved on. I had a run in with him myself but I assure you he is in no way typical of the coast guard personnel I generally encounter.

Thats right. It was a rib coast guard's boat.