Might as well re-engine now I guess?

[Steve_N]

Whilst the engine is out then I would fit a new stern gland. Little extra money and less moisture in the bilge.

Worth considering I agree but the trouble is that these things always seem to escalate; the shaft would probably prove to be too worn for a different type of seal and need replacing too, and at 1.5" diameter and nigh on 2 metres long that wouldn't be cheap.

 

[Nigel-in-Oxford]

2 years ago I was debating the same choice. I had a 30 year old Yanma single pot that had had a 2K rebuild 8 years before. It seemed that it was just one niggle after another. I had a new Beta 20 installed for 6K. The peace of mind, and smooth running has changed my enjoyment of the boat no end. The boat has the same monetary value, but I wont want to sell it.
PS I'm also close to 60.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Whilst the engine is out then I would fit a new stern gland. Little extra money and less moisture in the bilge.

I would worry more about a modern stern gland than about an elderly engine.

 

[Tranona]

I would worry more about a modern stern gland than about an elderly engine.

Why? OP has the perfect set up for a non drip seal with an Aquadrive so no movement fore and aft or sideways. Not that movement per se is a problem with modern seals. Just bought a new Radice seal (same type as a Volvo) to replace the 18 year old Volvo which has never leaked a drop and still looks like new. Only reason for replacing it is because it has better lubricating and venting features.

 

[jerrytug]

I would worry more about a modern stern gland than about an elderly engine.

Yes indeed, I struggle to grasp why anyone ever contemplated trying to improve on the trad stuffing box, the main thing is that you won't randomly sink. Also, very low friction, very cheap to service, while afloat of course..(we replaced the stuffing on a 2500 ton stern trawler afloat) Isn't that enough, what more do you want?

 

[Tranona]

Yes indeed, I struggle to grasp why anyone ever contemplated trying to improve on the trad stuffing box, the main thing is that you won't randomly sink. Also, very low friction, very cheap to service, while afloat of course..(we replaced the stuffing on a 2500 ton stern trawler afloat) Isn't that enough, what more do you want?

Well, I guess the thousands of Beneteaus and Jeanneaus (for example) which are fitted with Volvo seals are "randomly sinking" are they?

Amazing how evidence can be ignored in support of an outdated device when cheap, reliable, non leaking alternatives are available.

 

[bedouin]

Isn't that enough, what more do you want?

How about something that keeps the water out

 

[Concerto]

Yes indeed, I struggle to grasp why anyone ever contemplated trying to improve on the trad stuffing box, the main thing is that you won't randomly sink. Also, very low friction, very cheap to service, while afloat of course..(we replaced the stuffing on a 2500 ton stern trawler afloat) Isn't that enough, what more do you want?

I removed the conventional stuffing box due to the build up of 35 years of grease spun all around the back of the engine. It still dripped water on a regular basis, but now a water lubricated seal is drip free.

 

[pcatterall]

Just to add my 2 penny’s worth to the seal debate.
Firstly if the OP is concerned that his shaft may be too manky for a lip seal then he could consider a PSS type where the seal is not not seal to shaft.

My own Tides Marine lip type seal has been fine but ( as reported to the forum) I had an issue with crevice corrosion due to a long period afloat in the Med but unused. (I guess that a stuffing box could have had the same issues).
It did make me think though that had I not spotted the rough corroded area at the shaft seal face my seal would have been damaged if I had used it like that.
At the least changing the seal mid season in a ‘foreign’ port could have been expensive and fouled up our holiday...........lift out rudder drop, shaft, split new seal, lift back etc!.

With a Stuffing box we could probably have managed.

I know 99% of us will feel that lip seals are the bees knees but there are some issues.
Once something goes wrong you then have a worry about what if it happens again.
In my current boat the stern seal area is very accessible and maintaining a stuffing box would be simple.

 

[JumbleDuck]

How about something that keeps the water out

The trouble with these new-fangled things is that they either keep all the water out or they keep none of it out. Old-fashioned stuffing boxes may drip, but they don't have the same scope for catastrophic failure.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, I guess the thousands of Beneteaus and Jeanneaus (for example) which are fitted with Volvo seals are "randomly sinking" are they?

My stuffing box is going strong after 29 years. I read about one bloke who was so worried about his Volvo seal after a mere 14 years that he replaced it with a Radice.

 

[Steve_N]

I think I'll keep the stuffing box. It drips only underway so isn't a big inconvenience.

I mentioned earlier about the pre-purchase failed delivery trip back from the Med and I think that one the reasons for aborting was that the sea was flooding in through the shaft seal. Clearly a lot, and I mean a lot, of grease had been pumped in and there was grey, greasy water sitting in the bilge throughout the boat and grease thrown onto the underside of the floor above the propellor shaft. When I later withdrew the shaft the stern tube was packed full of grease and there was no packing at all in the stuffing box. Nothing, nada, not even a remnant, the compression cap was empty and tight against the box's body.

The new packing that I put it then, over a decade ago, shows no sign of wear so I think that a stuffing box remains one of the most solid and reliable forms of seal shaft , providing that you're prepared to put up with the odd drip.

 

[Tranona]

My stuffing box is going strong after 29 years. I read about one bloke who was so worried about his Volvo seal after a mere 14 years that he replaced it with a Radice.

But I hear he is going to sell it because there is no wear - only being replaced for convenience because the engine is being replaced. Also heard that the original stuffing box was knackered and had worn the shaft so much it needed a new shaft - and dripped all the time no matter how many times it was repacked.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But I hear he is going to sell it because there is no wear - only being replaced for convenience because the engine is being replaced.

After only eighteen years? He must have been very unlucky, because someone told me that "the typical life of a yacht auxilliary is 30-35 years, whether it is a dedicated "marine" engine or based on an industrial unit and they almost always die from lack of proper use, maintenance or neglect rather than wearing out". Of course maybe the engine was working fine, but he distrusted it as much as he clearly distrusted his shaft seal ...

 

[Tranona]

After only eighteen years? He must have been very unlucky, because someone told me that "the typical life of a yacht auxilliary is 30-35 years, whether it is a dedicated "marine" engine or based on an industrial unit and they almost always die from lack of proper use, maintenance or neglect rather than wearing out". Of course maybe the engine was working fine, but he distrusted it as much as he clearly distrusted his shaft seal ...

It is much better if you have the whole story rather than making assumptions from partial information. The "old" Yanmar 1GM was not new when I installed it in 1992, but had spent 4 year sin another boat. It was then the only diesel that would fit the space but was really underpowered, although apart from a leaking water pump was trouble free. So decided to change it for the Nanni which has 50% more power as part of my long term retirement plans. Yanmar sold for £1200 and is still going strong in a GK 24 - so 27 years old now. Volvo seal was fitted because the old Stuart Turner stuffing box was knackered and shaft shot, plus shortage of room on the exposed shaft meant the Volvo seal was the only one that would fit if I wanted to use a Bullflex coupling. Has not given a moments trouble since, but taking the opportunity to fit the improved Radice version to get the vent and easier greasing.

So the truth is very different from your fantasy fairy tale. Happy now?

 

[Poignard]

What you could do, Steve, is to remove the existing engine, get it home and onto a bench, dismantle it and see what parts are worn out, find out what replacement parts will cost, and then decide whether to repair or replace the engine.

My engine, a BUKH DV10, was in poor condition and in 2000 I did as I have suggested above and decided it was worth overhauling the engine. I enjoyed doing it and the new parts cost around £1,300, compared with £5,000-£6,000 for a new engine. My labour cost nothing. The engine still runs well and starts easily, by hand if necessary. I carried out a cylinder head overhaul in 2009 and another early this year. There's nothing difficult about overhauling a modern small marine diesel engine, no bearings to scrape or anything like that. Any engineering work beyond your resources, such as crankshaft regrinding, can be carried out by specialist firms.

My boat is 48 years old and probably worth less than £20,000. I doubt whether spending £5,000-£6,000 on a new engine would add anything like that to its value.

It all depends on how much, if at all, you enjoy working with machinery, how much time you have and your financial resources.

 

[Heckler]

l

What you could do, Steve, is to remove the existing engine, get it home and onto a bench, dismantle it and see what parts are worn out, find out what replacement parts will cost, and then decide whether to repair or replace the engine.

My engine, a BUKH DV10, was in poor condition and in 2000 I did as I have suggested above and decided it was worth overhauling the engine. I enjoyed doing it and the new parts cost around £1,300, compared with £5,000-£6,000 for a new engine. My labour cost nothing. The engine still runs well and starts easily, by hand if necessary. I carried out a cylinder head overhaul in 2009 and another early this year. There's nothing difficult about overhauling a modern small marine diesel engine, no bearings to scrape or anything like that. Any engineering work beyond your resources, such as crankshaft regrinding, can be carried out by specialist firms.

My boat is 48 years old and probably worth less than £20,000. I doubt whether spending £5,000-£6,000 on a new engine would add anything like that to its value.

It all depends on how much, if at all, you enjoy working with machinery, how much time you have and your financial resources.

I cant believe it! I agree! Same with mine, when the time comes, rebore, new pistons, big and mains shells and gaskets, only £400 for kit of parts. The water pump etc I have sourced. The injectors, any competent diesel shop will over haul for £60 ish each.
The cylinder head decoke, valve grind and I enjoy doing it.
S

 

[Norman_E]

My stuffing box is going strong after 29 years. I read about one bloke who was so worried about his Volvo seal after a mere 14 years that he replaced it with a Radice.

A bit like me then. I replaced mine as stated in post 29 here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...o-shaft-seal&p=5338764&highlight=#post5338764
In fact I don't know how old the Volvo seal was when replaced. It may have been fitted when the boat was built in 1998, in which case it was over 14 years old.

 

[bedouin]

What you could do, Steve, is to remove the existing engine, get it home and onto a bench, dismantle it and see what parts are worn out, find out what replacement parts will cost, and then decide whether to repair or replace the engine.

My engine, a BUKH DV10, was in poor condition and in 2000 I did as I have suggested above and decided it was worth overhauling the engine. I enjoyed doing it and the new parts cost around £1,300, compared with £5,000-£6,000 for a new engine. My labour cost nothing. The engine still runs well and starts easily, by hand if necessary. I carried out a cylinder head overhaul in 2009 and another early this year. There's nothing difficult about overhauling a modern small marine diesel engine, no bearings to scrape or anything like that. Any engineering work beyond your resources, such as crankshaft regrinding, can be carried out by specialist firms.

My boat is 48 years old and probably worth less than £20,000. I doubt whether spending £5,000-£6,000 on a new engine would add anything like that to its value.

It all depends on how much, if at all, you enjoy working with machinery, how much time you have and your financial resources.

I've been taking that approach for a few years now, and have finally decided to replace it. By boat is of similar age and similar value to yours.

Given the current state of the 2nd hand market I think that a boat with a 40+ year old engine in may be very difficult to sell. It is a massive gamble to buy such a boat when you could massive bill for re-engining.

Also if you think that you are going to have to replace the engine at some point then there is no particular reason to put it off, almost the sooner the better.

Each time there is an issue with the engine there is a cost of pretty much £1000 just to get it out of the boat and refit it before you start adding in the cost of actually fixing the problem. It doesn't take many of them to make a dent in the cost of a new engine.

 

[Steve_N]

What you could do, Steve, is to remove the existing engine, get it home and onto a bench, dismantle it and see what parts are worn out, find out what replacement parts will cost, and then decide whether to repair or replace the engine.

My engine, a BUKH DV10, was in poor condition and in 2000 I did as I have suggested above and decided it was worth overhauling the engine. I enjoyed doing it and the new parts cost around £1,300, compared with £5,000-£6,000 for a new engine. My labour cost nothing. The engine still runs well and starts easily, by hand if necessary. I carried out a cylinder head overhaul in 2009 and another early this year. There's nothing difficult about overhauling a modern small marine diesel engine, no bearings to scrape or anything like that. Any engineering work beyond your resources, such as crankshaft regrinding, can be carried out by specialist firms.

My boat is 48 years old and probably worth less than £20,000. I doubt whether spending £5,000-£6,000 on a new engine would add anything like that to its value.

It all depends on how much, if at all, you enjoy working with machinery, how much time you have and your financial resources.

Thanks and, yes, that would be an option as I do have the skills and (limited) experience to do a rebuild and would probably enjoy it, some of the time.
Many of the basic parts are still available and it's a very rebuildable engine with removable wet cylinders liners etc. The last time I checked the base engine itself (XDP4.90) was still being built in either Argentina I think, or perhaps it was in India for Mahindra jeeps.

But, I'm sticking with the decision that if I go to the trouble of removing this one then it's definitely not going back in; it has to be a new one.

Value-wise I've accepted that it'd be money spent rather than invested. The current state of the second hand market has probably wiped a third off the value of the boat anyway and although the age of the engine would be a factor in any sale, prospective buyers would have to get past the 32 year old teak decks and DIY osmosis treatment first! They are not going to be queuing up and this is a decision more about my continuing use than any future sale.

Not in the water yet but going in soon. I hope the old girl (the engine that is) hasn't been listening to all this