caiman
Well-Known Member
When you've got it up and running properly,can I have 'first refusal' if you decide to sell it please?
Cheers
Cheers
Micro 12v Generator Project
- Thread starter mattnj
- Start date
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Back to generators (please) The Mase used an electro-mechanical throttle control. There was a black pot on the carb that used a tapping of one of gen coils to excite an electro magnet connected to the butterfly. Little knob on top could fine tune it with reference to the voltmeter for 220. An ampermeter did the job for 12/24v. Presumable by altering the tension on the balance spring.( I never looked in the pot)
Again probably too complex for a one off, but?
A
Again probably too complex for a one off, but?
A
pvb
Well-Known Member
Yes, I had a Mase generator like that. The throttle control failed and I took it apart to find it was full of springs, magnets, smoke and mirrors. Worked well when it worked, but parts prices were high and it was quite old so I chucked it.
danfoley
Well-Known Member
I'm out of decent internet connection range so can't deal with this now but the abusive posts are unacceptable, I'm locking the thread and will deal with it when I'm back to civilisation. The rules on personal abuse are clear and personal attacks are not wanted here.
danfoley
Well-Known Member
I've had a look through the thread and it's a shame that such an interesting subject has been hijacked.
Stu, Matt, PVB, I've deleted a number of your posts so we can hopefully continue this thread without getting sidetracked.
I've spent 20 mins going through this and don't particularly want to waste any more time on who did what wrong, but please use common civility towards each other and not resort to personal abuse. I understand the frustrations and will be keeping an eye on the topic.
Dan
Stu, Matt, PVB, I've deleted a number of your posts so we can hopefully continue this thread without getting sidetracked.
I've spent 20 mins going through this and don't particularly want to waste any more time on who did what wrong, but please use common civility towards each other and not resort to personal abuse. I understand the frustrations and will be keeping an eye on the topic.
Dan
mattnj
Well-Known Member
Still Very Much Alive and Going Well!
what can i say, thanks to all the PM's (22!) telling me to carry on and ignore 1 certain person....anyway....the generator....
Been doing a load of work in the last week and coming on well, now has a microcontroller circuit that controls a fully adjustable (and programmable) alternator regulator and a servo controlled throttle that holds any engine speed you like.
Unfortunately the drive coupling has just broken (need the next size up!) so its out of action until a new one arrives, but will post some more vids and pictures very soon.
Looks like it will certianly do 20amps no problems at all from the early tests.
PS - anymore negative posts and i will just stop updating this one, so please, resist the temptation, please dont ruin it for eveyone else!
PPS actually, i think i will just move it to a blog that no-one can post on!
what can i say, thanks to all the PM's (22!) telling me to carry on and ignore 1 certain person....anyway....the generator....
Been doing a load of work in the last week and coming on well, now has a microcontroller circuit that controls a fully adjustable (and programmable) alternator regulator and a servo controlled throttle that holds any engine speed you like.
Unfortunately the drive coupling has just broken (need the next size up!) so its out of action until a new one arrives, but will post some more vids and pictures very soon.
Looks like it will certianly do 20amps no problems at all from the early tests.
PS - anymore negative posts and i will just stop updating this one, so please, resist the temptation, please dont ruin it for eveyone else!
PPS actually, i think i will just move it to a blog that no-one can post on!
footsoldier
Well-Known Member
matt
Please keep posting on here. This is one of the most interesting and innovative threads for ages. It is giving interest and pleasure to many of us. Don't be deterred by one or two peeps with bees in their bonnets.
Please keep posting on here. This is one of the most interesting and innovative threads for ages. It is giving interest and pleasure to many of us. Don't be deterred by one or two peeps with bees in their bonnets.
jack_tar
Well-Known Member
DiTTo
VicS
Well-Known Member
Like wise keep on posting.
While you are having to replace the coupling it is the time to address the very first piece of criticism of your project.
While you are having to replace the coupling it is the time to address the very first piece of criticism of your project.
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure he has a problem with that, Vic. At low revs the alternator could absorb enough power to stall the engine - hence the need for control circuits. When running it he says it could output 20A, which is what was needed. To speed up the alternator would just make things worse!
However, I did wonder if the proposed control system was more complex than needed. In my experience, the more parameters you try to monitor and control, the more likely it is to do something unexpected. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that all it needs is a constant speed regulator - a mechanical govenor is probably to difficult to set up, but servo control based on output voltage might do it. I guess the PIC controller might do something like this. A thought just struck me - does the alternator have a tacho output? That might make life easier.
However, I did wonder if the proposed control system was more complex than needed. In my experience, the more parameters you try to monitor and control, the more likely it is to do something unexpected. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that all it needs is a constant speed regulator - a mechanical govenor is probably to difficult to set up, but servo control based on output voltage might do it. I guess the PIC controller might do something like this. A thought just struck me - does the alternator have a tacho output? That might make life easier.
VicS
Well-Known Member
I know I know.
You only had to look up the specs for the alternator and the engine to realise that. Car alternators are speeded up from crankshaft speed but that gives decent charging rates at slow speeds.
As you say speeding it up would have made matters worse and in fact it may have been better if geared down a little but he wanted to run it coupled directly he did not want gearboxes or belts and pulleys.
pvb
Well-Known Member
pvb
Well-Known Member
It looks like a fairly rigid coupling, Matt, would it be worth looking for a little rubber-cushioned coupling?
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
What sort of life are you hoping to get from the engine? Some engines are designed to run for most of the time well below maximum power - so a 100hp car engine, for example, will spend much of its life punting out the 30hp or so needed for bimbling along at 70 and very little overtaking at high revs and maximum power.
I wonder how long Honda design this one to run at full power?
I wonder how long Honda design this one to run at full power?
pvb
Well-Known Member
Matt seems now to be looking at a 20A output as being reasonably attainable (and his battery bank might not be able to absorb much more than that for long periods). So that's not going to involve full power running. Honda's service schedule for the engine talks in terms of "every 2 years or 300 hours", and I'd have thought for leisure boat use 150 hours of charging a year would be a lot.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Another vote fgor continuing posting. There are a few doom sayers on here like almost any other forum, and there are some real nutters one some so just ignore their ranting and get on with the job of being creative. Wish I had the ability to do what you are doing.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Coo, "every ... 300 hours" is quite impressive, since some cheap four strokes with chromed alloy bores are only made to last a hundred hours or so. I guess the reason most current generators use bigger, slower engines is the need to turn a 4-pole generator at 1,500 rpm for 50 Hz ... going for 12V seems like a good way of avoiding that. My only doubt is about the casing - it takes an awful lot of air to cool even a small cylinder head. What a shame they don't make a water cooled one.
I'll look forward to following the project, and I hope PBO run an article on it.
PS Anyone else remember Tiny Tim Generators?
CharlesSwallow
Well-Known Member
I've done a search and can't find this but...
...could you possibly post some details/pics of your "Water cooled exhaust"? Looking at someone else's solution to this one might help with a project I have in mind.
Chas
...could you possibly post some details/pics of your "Water cooled exhaust"? Looking at someone else's solution to this one might help with a project I have in mind.
Chas
VicS
Well-Known Member
Look back through the thread and you will find pictures have already been posted!
look at posts #44 and #62for pics and a couple of videos
Last edited:
saltwater_gypsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 13 Jan 2008
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- Location
- Now back in Scotland . Boat for sale
I've just popped back to see how this interesting project is progressing and I can scarely believe that Dan had to intervene to keep the peace.
I think this a brilliant project in the best PBO traditions and even if it fails to make its technical targets it has been very thought provoking and clearly establishes the need for a small 12v generator.
I suspect that some current regulation is required to deal with the heavy current draw that comes at the start of charging which may overload the motor but that may have been covered in one of the other 139 posts! Good luck!!
I think this a brilliant project in the best PBO traditions and even if it fails to make its technical targets it has been very thought provoking and clearly establishes the need for a small 12v generator.
I suspect that some current regulation is required to deal with the heavy current draw that comes at the start of charging which may overload the motor but that may have been covered in one of the other 139 posts! Good luck!!