yoda
Well-Known Member
A genuinly interesting project and I can see a market for this type of product. However turning from a project to a marketable product will be the real challenge. Please keep us posted.
Yoda
Yoda
Micro 12v Generator Project
- Thread starter mattnj
- Start date
mattnj
Well-Known Member
maybe, i was working on the principal that to be quiet, it needs to go in a sound proofed box, its the only way, so once in a box, the easiest way to cool it down has to be pump as much cold seawater in as you need, then chuck it overboard, so i started with the exhaust as it seems the easiest thing to tackle and will (hopefully) get rid of the most heat.
i am expecting several attempts at is, but a bit late in the day to change it now, almost complete (even though it doesnt look very complete it in the pics)
Last edited:
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I came across a water cooled jacket on machine guns many years ago. The jacket had lots of radiating/convection surfaces, and it was only when steam came out of the top that you knew the barrel was getting almost too warm.
It wouldn't be too difficult to calculate the amount of heat you need to take out the exhaust by a similar jacket. It would be a useful function to NOT have need of a running water supply.
It wouldn't be too difficult to calculate the amount of heat you need to take out the exhaust by a similar jacket. It would be a useful function to NOT have need of a running water supply.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
No intention of selling it, just making a 1off for me and my boat....
tried wind/solar, ok, but just not enough power output for me, suitcase genny we never used as much as we should as it was heavy to lift from below decks plug in etc, engine running with alternator regulator is a big pain for us, our Dehler has engine on keel under saloon table so right in the way and extra annoying when running and you are in saloon, I had the honda GX10 water pump that i dont need anymore and use the Denso alternators on our race car, and had a spare.....so the project just kind of started itself.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
its a one off, so no real bother, would be if trying to take it to market.
The plan is just chuck 2 lengths of pipe over the side when you need to start it up...one for the raw water, one for exhaust, longer term, skin fittings (think i have a spare one with a blank on it)
sarabande
Well-Known Member
So you have a separate pump for the water ? This will take up a largish % of the power available to the alternator. Especially if there is a head of more than a metre, and also you have friction loss in the pipes ?
If you cool the exhaust gases below a certain temp, there will be condensation spluttering out of the exhaust pipe.
Silencing the beast seems to be best done by a baffled box, but I can see that you are trying very hard to reduce noise especially from the exhaust, and that's an important design objective for on board use.
If you cool the exhaust gases below a certain temp, there will be condensation spluttering out of the exhaust pipe.
Silencing the beast seems to be best done by a baffled box, but I can see that you are trying very hard to reduce noise especially from the exhaust, and that's an important design objective for on board use.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
I have tried silencing it more with the muffler, but hard work, when i put the existing output into a bucket of water and a 1m hose, it sorted it right out, so that is how i ended up going this route...it all all running bloody hot too with the standard muffler...
using a 12v water pump, 20 watts max, 10litres/min at 0.5m head, max lift 7m (doesnt say flow at 7m but much less of course) will be running an 1m delivery height ish so should be decent flow, the exhaust goes out a 1" bore plastic hose (with the water) so dont think condensation is an issue, is it?
Will post a video on youtube of it running as soon as it is so you can all see....and laugh
Last edited:
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Matt,
Interesting project - good luck.
There may be commercial prospects, although now you've given away the idea here, some Chinese corporation may be the beneficiary!
Interesting project - good luck.
There may be commercial prospects, although now you've given away the idea here, some Chinese corporation may be the beneficiary!
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Am I living in lala land? I commend the man for trying and nothing more satisfying than making something work, but get real, commercial possibilities? Why try to reinvent the wheel? Millions of cheap Chinese suitcase gennies for anything from £39 to £60 to choose from. Decent SDMOs with honda or kholer engines, as light as a feather and quiet too from £239, why bother?
The only thing going for the project is the fun in making it work, it certainly wont be practical, I mean to say a naked air cooled 25cc engine screaming its nuts off? (Cooling the exhaust gases wont stop the cylinder and head getting hot) Commercial possibility, I think not!
Stu
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Looks fascinating, good luck with it. Soldering up the copper will be fine. However I would suggest you give serious consideration to the use of silver solder (hard solder). That melts at >600C and will be rather more resistant to inadvertant dry running. Even proper plumbers solder, the stuff you have to melt with a blowlamp as opposed to even a 100W iron, would be a better choice than basic soft solder.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
i think you are living in lala land, yes, not re-inveting the wheel, you simply cannot buy these things.....show me an single genset that does 30,40, 50 whatever amps at about 8kg weight please and a link to buy one?
It wont be screaming its nuts off, how about you shush and wait for the end result, you can then jump all over it and say i told you so, if you want...and it makes you happy...
"as light as a feather and quiet too from £239, why bother?" becasue this will be quieter, half the weight and do 40amps+, which they will not...the cylinder head is still air cooled from the fan on the flywheel by the way...
you dont seem to have an understanding of the project, so just calm down and listen and learn...
Last edited:
dmmbruce
Well-Known Member
I don't think many will laugh AT you.
Laugh WITH you, yes! ---&--- That's fine if it is funny!
There will be many, like me, who have been quietly mulling over something similar and never getting to actually doing it.
I have good experience with solar and wind. But the possibility of having a bit of quiet, effective, serious power, once in a while would be very interesting. Hot water, microwave etc. You might have several people learning, then copying you!
Thanks.
Please keep posting.
Laugh WITH you, yes! ---&--- That's fine if it is funny!
There will be many, like me, who have been quietly mulling over something similar and never getting to actually doing it.
I have good experience with solar and wind. But the possibility of having a bit of quiet, effective, serious power, once in a while would be very interesting. Hot water, microwave etc. You might have several people learning, then copying you!
Thanks.
Please keep posting.
nathanlee
Well-Known Member
Not to jump on a bandwagon here, but that's a bit out of order. He praised your work and pointed out a potential problem which you may or may not have thought of.
I would have thought a simple "no worries, I've got that covered" would have been a more apt response, but hey ho. What do I know.
As for the project, good luck with it. I'll be following with interest since I could do with a mini gen. I'd get away with 5amps of so though, so had pondered on a petrol powered model plane engine or similar. Just an idea, I hadn't thought it through properly... ironically, Skipper_Stu's reply would have been a help to me in this case.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
yes will be plumbers solder for now, thats all i have kicking about the workshop, if it works well but melts when gets really hot, thats fairly easy one to fix (i hope)
mattnj
Well-Known Member
agreed and i apologised right away, he does however seem to have a negative attitude problem....
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Typical forum squabble, but the corporate speak that you use tends to get peeps backs up.
Bottom line the 33cc kholer engine in my SDMO runs my 20 amp battery charger, a 60 watt light, my digi tele and various phone chargers all at once. It does it in a package that I can easily get out of the locker, put on the sugar scoop and plug on to my shore power line. It does it so quietly that the boat moored alongside me cant hear it when it is running.
As I have said before, why re invent the wheel? Satisfying to make something work but hardly practicable as a long term solution
Stu
mattnj
Well-Known Member
er...once again, because it will be just over half the weight, do 40+ amps, which is double? and will be quieter....i have a Eu10i (and a kipor IG2000) and am trying to replace it...cos i want more 12v output and something smaller, lighter and quiter....
saying your neighbour cant hear it running is just nonsense, does anyone have a 1kw generator that when running (under load especially) on the sugar scoop they or their neighbour cant hear it.....might be just me, but i sure can....
Last edited:
lw395
Well-Known Member
It's easy to sound over-negative when you're trying to make a point concisely.
Why re-invent the wheel?
It's a hobby.
Why sail to france when the Ferry can get you there quicker, cheaper etc etc.
And there's the small saving of 200 odd quid for a genny plus x amount for a battery charger...
Plus long term, the possibility of an installed system that could be running 'indoors' might be of interest, giving most of the benefits* of a proper genset for much less weight and money....
* not most of amps or VA's just cold fridge on demand etc.
Are some of us just trottting out excuses for not doing this ourselves? (I resemble that remark!)
Why re-invent the wheel?
It's a hobby.
Why sail to france when the Ferry can get you there quicker, cheaper etc etc.
And there's the small saving of 200 odd quid for a genny plus x amount for a battery charger...
Plus long term, the possibility of an installed system that could be running 'indoors' might be of interest, giving most of the benefits* of a proper genset for much less weight and money....
* not most of amps or VA's just cold fridge on demand etc.
Are some of us just trottting out excuses for not doing this ourselves? (I resemble that remark!)
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
Not wishing to jump on the critisism bandwagon (if there is one), but what do you plan to do to keep the cylinder/head cool?
You mention a fan in the flywheel (presumably original), but you also talk of boxing it in for sound-proofing - which will limit the cooling air. You will have the heat equivalent to a small heater to get rid of somehow. You plan to water-cool the exhaust, but I don't see how you might water-cool an engine that is designed for air-cooling. Unless, of course you plan considerable re-engineering - macine off the fins and fit a water jacket. But I would assume, from your other thread, that you are not equipped for that kind of work.
Incidentally (and I don't know if there's any webstuff about it), about 30 years ago, a bunch of model engineers built a G1 (45mm between the rails) diesel-electric locomotive, capable of pulling a full-size passenger! They used, if I recall, a water-cooled glow-plug engine, coupled with a dynamo, with a proper radiator, silencer and cooling fans.
You mention a fan in the flywheel (presumably original), but you also talk of boxing it in for sound-proofing - which will limit the cooling air. You will have the heat equivalent to a small heater to get rid of somehow. You plan to water-cool the exhaust, but I don't see how you might water-cool an engine that is designed for air-cooling. Unless, of course you plan considerable re-engineering - macine off the fins and fit a water jacket. But I would assume, from your other thread, that you are not equipped for that kind of work.
Incidentally (and I don't know if there's any webstuff about it), about 30 years ago, a bunch of model engineers built a G1 (45mm between the rails) diesel-electric locomotive, capable of pulling a full-size passenger! They used, if I recall, a water-cooled glow-plug engine, coupled with a dynamo, with a proper radiator, silencer and cooling fans.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
You see, entrenched attitude, I told you what it does in the real world. Casting doubts on my words just makes you look silly. The bottom line on all these engines is that they all produce much the same amount of power, nothing can change that so the output, whether it be volts or amps or whatever is much the same, so driving your alternator it will only put out so much power, much as my SDMO will. Power = charging ability. Plus to answer some of the other comments, the cost of the pump and alternator PLUS the enjoyable time put in to the project will make it just as expensive as buying my SDMO genny.
Stu