Metals used in a Centaur mast step

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

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Joined
28 Mar 2005
Messages
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Location
Buckingham
www.keepturningleft.co.uk
Varkoula has been involved in a bit of a mishap

I was not there but is sounds as though the mast fell onto the bank while they were taking it down

I do not have the snaps of the damage - just an email report saying

"No wires snapped.

The aluminium mast “shoe” needs repair or replacement. The bottom of the mast proper needs some more minor repairs. (The steel mast seat on the boat is OK).

Forestay furlex aluminium rods have 2 small bends which should straighten OK.

Starboard spreader needs a new bit of plastic on the end"



these are the snaps of the mast and furler before the mast fell down

can anyone tell me what the metals are here

I assume it is the casting that has failed - or the bottom of the mast has parted company from it

can you repair a casting?

will the RR be compromised

as I said, I have experience of small boats but for me a centaur is a big one

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/mast-base-1Sequence-030.jpg

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sequence-0303.jpg

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/furler-305.jpg
 
dylanwinter said:
mast-base-1Sequence-030.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks like a Proctor mast as fitted to most Westerlies of that age. The fitting is light alloy (or at least the one on my 21-footer was) and should be a piece of cake for any light engineering company to make in a few hours on a milling machine. Getting them off can be an utter pain, as they corrode onto the mast (there is another thread running about this), but in this case destructive brutality won't be an issue.

It might we worth following up some of the leads on http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?414741-Proctor-dealers-mast-foot
 
JumbleDuck said:
Looks like a Proctor mast as fitted to most Westerlies of that age. The fitting is light alloy (or at least the one on my 21-footer was) and should be a piece of cake for any light engineering company to make in a few hours on a milling machine. Getting them off can be an utter pain, as they corrode onto the mast (there is another thread running about this), but in this case destructive brutality won't be an issue.

It might we worth following up some of the leads on http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?414741-Proctor-dealers-mast-foot
Click to expand...

blimey - I just read that thread -

back in the ferriting for bits territory of the sort that drove me bonkers with the MD1

there was one live link

http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products/masts/mast_bases_-_deck_rings.html

it sounds as though the bottom of the mast has also sustained some damage

such a shame

D
 
pvb said:
Who was taking it down? Won't they have the responsibility of fixing it?
Click to expand...

the yard say they will put it right

However,

I have watched a lot of mast handling but never seen a big one dropped. I have seen dayboat masts go down and it is always the mast step that gets it

if it goes sideways then it is the spreader that hits the deck first

the roller reefing seldom survives a fall

the pushpit will kink it

call me a worrier if you wish but I like the idea of masts that are as strong as their designers wished them to be

Can you repair mast sections?
 
I don't suppose they were doing the job as a favour
A common way of busting those castings is lowering the mast on the forestay and losing control so it goes over the side. Suspect they were not using a crane.
Any road, it all sounds a bit glib, as a minimum I might want some photos, or get over there myself or get the aforesaid surveyor on the job.
I don't like the sound of those bent reefing sections, nor the damage to the bottom of the mast. Course it could be repaired but I would want to see it first and also have a careful look at the cross trees esp at the inboard end.
 
doug748 said:
I don't suppose they were doing the job as a favour
A common way of busting those castings is lowering the mast on the forestay and losing control so it goes over the side. Suspect they were not using a crane.
Any road, it all sounds a bit glib, as a minimum I might want some photos, or get over there myself or get the aforesaid surveyor on the job.
I don't like the sound of those bent reefing sections, nor the damage to the bottom of the mast. Course it could be repaired but I would want to see it first and also have a careful look at the cross trees esp at the inboard end.
Click to expand...

all I know at this stage is what is on my blog

I agree though - it sounds messy. I am also assuming the gubbins on the top of the mast got a bit of a shaking

It was the yard removing the mast - and they have an onsite crane

they also charge for a banksman when doing crane outs so I am sure it was all being done as part of normal yard activities

however.... other Centaurs are available

D
 
doug748 said:
I don't suppose they were doing the job as a favour
A common way of busting those castings is lowering the mast on the forestay and losing control so it goes over the side. Suspect they were not using a crane.
Any road, it all sounds a bit glib, as a minimum I might want some photos, or get over there myself or get the aforesaid surveyor on the job.
I don't like the sound of those bent reefing sections, nor the damage to the bottom of the mast. Course it could be repaired but I would want to see it first and also have a careful look at the cross trees esp at the inboard end.
Click to expand...

+lots. It may only be a £4k boat, but it's a £4k mast at least if it goes overboard later.

Dylan, do you know exactly what happened? My first interpretation was that they lifted it off successfully, then dropped it onto the step. If they managed to drop it sideways while still on the step I'd want someone to have a very good, hard look at the cabin roof, because that could be a hell of a twist.

If I were you I would be walking away from this one unless you got a surveyor's report saying that everything is sound. At the seller's expense, natch.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Indeed they are. I would give this one a miss now. If the mast repair is bodged, which is likely given the low value of the boat, the mast may be at risk of failure later. You don't want to be worrying about it in the Minch.
Click to expand...

If the only damage is to the mast heel and attachments like spreaders and foil then I think a full repair could be done, at a price. If there is the slightest hint of damage to the extruded section, I would be very wary indeed.

There are plenty more Centaurs in the sea, and prices are about to fall as winter storage bills loom. I vote for "Walk".
 
Sorry Dylan about this mishap. It sounds like you have set your heart on this boat and now have to rethink. Certainly there will be a time element in getting itn fixed even if yard do make good.
It does sound a bit like thye were trying to lower the mast without a crane by tilting on the base. This is OK but can be fraught with problems. These kind of ali base hinges have lugs separated just enough to snap off with any swing of the mast sideways. This swing can be caused by a passing boat wave. It is vitasl that the mast be supported from sideways swing through the traverse. However from the spreader damage it looks like it came right down onto the bank. Ther may be some indentation damage at the base of the spreader into the wall of the mast. I can imagine also damage to the mast at the foot. Neither of these are likely to be a cause of later mast failure but will offend your sense of it being right.
The mast hinge it self will be made of ali but would be far better made of Stainless steel. If you buy the boat and set yourself up for self mast lowering.
Sorry don't know much about the damage to extrusions for furler. (me being a Luddite when it comes to furlers.)
Incidentally I looked at a nice 32 fter yesterday where the owner had fitted an electric winch on one side for halyards. But mostly it was to operate on the tackle for mast lowering (raising). So common is mast lowering around here for bridges. good luck olewill
 
I think I would want more information before I made a decision.
You had a deal, now the boat has been damaged, the yard are willing to fix it. ok check the damage and the fix.
At this price range, for me the deal would be in the handshake range, rather than contracts and lawyers.
A small deposit, an agreement on price, subject to having a good look when lifted and maybe some items taken care of.
The question is why were they taking the mast down?
If I was a seller, I would not be arranging the mast to come down just after making a deal unless it was part of the deal.
If the mast was coming down to fix something or check something you wanted doing as part of your deal.
Gentlemanly fair play, Give them a chance to see if it can be sorted properly.
If they can't.
The other boat may be better and Pembroke to Scotland does not involve canals. but will you be able to get it for a price within your budget?
 
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William_H said:
Sorry Dylan about this mishap. It sounds like you have set your heart on this boat and now have to rethink. Certainly there will be a time element in getting itn fixed even if yard do make good.
It does sound a bit like thye were trying to lower the mast without a crane by tilting on the base. This is OK but can be fraught with problems. These kind of ali base hinges have lugs separated just enough to snap off with any swing of the mast sideways. This swing can be caused by a passing boat wave. It is vitasl that the mast be supported from sideways swing through the traverse. However from the spreader damage it looks like it came right down onto the bank. Ther may be some indentation damage at the base of the spreader into the wall of the mast. I can imagine also damage to the mast at the foot. Neither of these are likely to be a cause of later mast failure but will offend your sense of it being right.
The mast hinge it self will be made of ali but would be far better made of Stainless steel. If you buy the boat and set yourself up for self mast lowering.
Sorry don't know much about the damage to extrusions for furler. (me being a Luddite when it comes to furlers.)
Incidentally I looked at a nice 32 fter yesterday where the owner had fitted an electric winch on one side for halyards. But mostly it was to operate on the tackle for mast lowering (raising). So common is mast lowering around here for bridges. good luck olewill
Click to expand...

thanks O

lowering and raising the mast myself is not a priority for the scottish part of this journey.

I think we always invest some emotions in a boat you are expecting to own.

You look at the picturesd and start making lists of jobs to do. It is in a great yard with lovely old boats scattered around the place. I love the winter birds on the Humber, so I would have plenty to do while waiting for paint and varnish to dry and straightening the knots from my back. I had even planned a bit of winter duck punting. The quick dash through the canals was going to be great fun with a series of MOB volunteers offering to help along the way and offering us meals and use of washing machines as we pass by. One bloke had even offered to turn up with a drone.

the route would have taken us 140 miles through Leeds and Wigan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5pXnkJksyE

However, one reason for buying a centaur is that there are loads of them around. I have lots of time on this one.

I would like to see some snaps of the damage.

When people ask me what sort of boat I am after I usually say I want one which keeps the water out, where the mast stays up and the engine starts - after that everything else is a luxury

D
 
Uricanejack said:
I think I would want more information before I made a decision.
You had a deal, now the boat has been damaged, the yard are willing to fix it. ok check the damage and the fix.
The other boat may be better and Pembroke to Scotland does not involve canals. but will you be able to get it for a price within your budget?
Click to expand...

dunno

this one was on sale for 7.5K and was going to change hands for 4K

the Pembroke one is under 7

so I will see how keen their are to sell

there is a long cold winter ahead and I was looking forwards to getting stuck in

D
 
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