Messolonghi Marina

[charles_reed]

Having returned here after a 6-week absence, I'm impressed by the improvements that have been made.

The new shower/toilet block is up and running "une veritable palace des pissance et doucherie". As you might guess there are still a majority of French here.

The most major advance is the credit-card scheme - covering all the amenities, showering, water and electricity. Costs are not excessive in my experience - €0.55/shower, €1/day electricity, 1 tonne of water €1.50.
There is and extremely good washing/drying facility, wash €4.50, drying €0.05/2'.
Of course, if you're profligate, you can spend lots more than the above prices.

Yiannis continues to circulate like a manic bumble bee, and the >6-month discounts have been reduced as the the place fills up for the winter.

Unfortunately lift-out is still by, what Yiannis insists on calling a grendel (a mythic Scandanavian monster to me, but a crane to Yiannis).

Finally, the pontoons, wide, stable and fitted with adequate power points and a central water hose (as part of the equipment).
Only drawbacks - the distance to the town, for shopping - a lack of café or chandlery - bicycle-puncturing stretches of the road to the gate. (perhaps having high-pressure skinny tyres is inviting pssst)

Normal disclaimers - just a satisfied user.

 

[rivonia]

Having returned here after a 6-week absence, I'm impressed by the improvements that have been made.

The new shower/toilet block is up and running "une veritable palace des pissance et doucherie". As you might guess there are still a majority of French here.

The most major advance is the credit-card scheme - covering all the amenities, showering, water and electricity. Costs are not excessive in my experience - €0.55/shower, €1/day electricity, 1 tonne of water €1.50.
There is and extremely good washing/drying facility, wash €4.50, drying €0.05/2'.
Of course, if you're profligate, you can spend lots more than the above prices.

Yiannis continues to circulate like a manic bumble bee, and the >6-month discounts have been reduced as the the place fills up for the winter.

Unfortunately lift-out is still by, what Yiannis insists on calling a grendel (a mythic Scandanavian monster to me, but a crane to Yiannis).

Finally, the pontoons, wide, stable and fitted with adequate power points and a central water hose (as part of the equipment).
Only drawbacks - the distance to the town, for shopping - a lack of café or chandlery - bicycle-puncturing stretches of the road to the gate. (perhaps having high-pressure skinny tyres is inviting pssst)

Normal disclaimers - just a satisfied user.

I think that is expensive. I have never had to pay for use of a shower and we were led to believe that there were proper haul out facilities, now you say it is a crane! I wonder how much electricity is? We are now having second thoughts about wintering there.

Peter

 

[charles_reed]

Expensive - on what criteria - their berthing costs are 40% of G & J marinas, and their water and electricity 20% of the going rate in town quays.

As for paying for showers - if you'd like a cold on it's free. You usually have to pay for showers separately in most French Atlantic marinas, far more than €0.55.

You could always leave the boat for nothing at Trizonia or Monemvassia and save even more as there's no electricity at either.

 

[rivonia]

Expensive - on what criteria - their berthing costs are 40% of G & J marinas, and their water and electricity 20% of the going rate in town quays.

As for paying for showers - if you'd like a cold on it's free. You usually have to pay for showers separately in most French Atlantic marinas, far more than €0.55.

You could always leave the boat for nothing at Trizonia or Monemvassia and save even more as there's no electricity at either.

I think that you are missing the point. I have sailed for over 40 years and only once did I ever have to pay to use a shower and that was because I was at anchor. On my trip from Scotland to Almerimar not once was there a charge for use of the showers/toilets. With regard to the electricity what a rip off how can a standard live aboard yacht use that amount in a day is beyond me. Any way - what about the haul out facilities also?????
The shower and toilets are usually inclusive of the mooring fees where ever I have gone



Peter

 

[charles_reed]

Well I've sailed for 43 years and about 1/2 of places I've been showers have been charged.

The electricity is 1.5kWh for €1. If you use an electric kettle, water-heating computer as well as having a battery charger it's not difficult to use that amount in 24 hours.

I fear you may be missing the point - where all-in prices are ruling the cost of electricity and showers are included, you pay for them whether you want or not.

For people who leave their boat for 4/5 months to resume a more normal life, it's preferable to enjoy the lower prices of berthing than to subsidise the live-aboards. Berthing here is €140/month (before discount) for a 10m boat.
In Kalamata, last winter, I was paying €220/month, and their prices have risen since (that's the cheapest marina bar Messolonghi in Greece).

I suggest you do some local investigation, before expressing an opinion, and find out the true costs of berthing in Greece.

Your question about lift-out - they currently use a crane - by the end of June they are taking delivery of an hydraulic trailer to use on the slipway - don't know if that will handle a catamaran.

 

[Sybaris]

I think that you are missing the point. I have sailed for over 40 years ...

I agree that showers are normally included here in the Eastern Mediterranean, but I also agree with Charles that many places along the French Atlantic coast, Holland, Belgium, and Germany charge for showers; typically with coins or tokens. Anyway, it is no use to compare individual items; you need to compare the total price for the visit.

1 € worth of electricity at the local cost price (no mark-up) gives you 4 KWh. I agree that may be more than most boats spend in a 24h period. However, most people don't realize that the cost price for electricity (and water for that matter) has increase immensely the last few years in most European countries. Once businesses such as marinas make a calculation of their costs you are sure to see increases everywhere. Yacht Marine by the way was charging 0.35 € / KWh this winter. The same goes for water in many countries.

The price quoted for the crane last year was 10 €/m in and 10 €/m out plus VAT. I don't know if it is still the same, but that is really cheap. You do however get what you pay for as the crane is a large mobile crane with both slings attached to one hook. The slings are dirty (dragged on the yard) and no plastic is attached to protect the hulls The cradles leave a lot to be desired for some boats, and we were placed on soft wood blocks which cracked in the middle of the night so that we dropped more than an inch and the keel almost ended up on the steel frame. The crane driver is however a real magician manoeuvring boats out in tight spots even in windy weather.

Cheers,
Per

 

[mocruising]

Dont worry about the lifting facilities. We are 22 tonne and were lifted in and out very professionally last October and March. We like the place so we have renewed our winter contract for next winter already. If you are one of those winging gits that complain about everything (There were a couple last winter) then please stay away and let enjoy our little bit of undescovered Greece. I personally can't speak highly enough about the management here.

 

[Ariadne]

'Dont worry about the lifting facilities. We are 22 tonne and were lifted in and out very professionally last October and March. We like the place so we have renewed our winter contract for next winter already. If you are one of those winging gits that complain about everything (There were a couple last winter) then please stay away and let enjoy our little bit of undescovered Greece. I personally can't speak highly enough about the management here'

The first winter live-aboards in Messolonghi had a hard time and were basically abandoned by the management in all respects, and we sorted it out ourselves as all live-boards do.

We wintered there last year and although the price was good, the management were beyond a joke. Sybaris knows who I am what the complaints were by 90% of those living there, and they weren't answered. I live on board 365 with 2 children and we don't have a shower on board, I think that having hot showers and toilets that didn't back fill with effluent when it rained was perfectly valid complaint. As to your hygiene standards I can't answer for!

As for charging for showers, when I'm paying for a marina I expect to have water, electricity and showers to be included in the price, as it is in 99% of places we have stayed in over the last 3 years. Messolonghi isn't really a cheap marina with all the additional add on fees; there are cheaper and better places to winter aboard. As for leaving your boat on the hard with them over the winter, you pays your money and takes your chances.

I'll agree with the comment about the crane driver, but he's much more efficient without Yianiss around.

 

[charles_reed]

I agree that showers are normally included here in the Eastern Mediterranean, but I also agree with Charles that many places along the French Atlantic coast, Holland, Belgium, and Germany charge for showers; typically with coins or tokens. Anyway, it is no use to compare individual items; you need to compare the total price for the visit.

1 € worth of electricity at the local cost price (no mark-up) gives you 4 KWh. I agree that may be more than most boats spend in a 24h period. However, most people don't realize that the cost price for electricity (and water for that matter) has increase immensely the last few years in most European countries. Once businesses such as marinas make a calculation of their costs you are sure to see increases everywhere. Yacht Marine by the way was charging 0.35 € / KWh this winter. The same goes for water in many countries.

The price quoted for the crane last year was 10 €/m in and 10 €/m out plus VAT. I don't know if it is still the same, but that is really cheap. You do however get what you pay for as the crane is a large mobile crane with both slings attached to one hook. The slings are dirty (dragged on the yard) and no plastic is attached to protect the hulls The cradles leave a lot to be desired for some boats, and we were placed on soft wood blocks which cracked in the middle of the night so that we dropped more than an inch and the keel almost ended up on the steel frame. The crane driver is however a real magician manoeuvring boats out in tight spots even in windy weather.

Cheers,
Per

Current crane prices are running @ €11/m; the mark-up of x1.66 on electricity is high, but compares with a standard resale margin of 35%. As I've said, they find the crane an expensive way (in costs and space-utilisation) of getting boats in and out of the water. They are replacing that in the next month or so with an hydraulic trailer working on the slip.
They've taken on board the previous inadequacies of the cradles - Yiannis now boasts of the sturdiness of his cradles. I reserve judgement. Fortunately, with a lightweight boat and a lifting keel I can sit directly on the ground.
The cradles are not as comprehensively over-engineered as those in Aktio in Preveza, but are more adequate than most I've seen in Greece, most of which won't meet a simple structural calculation.
Regarding cheapness of lifts - the best price I've had was at Port Hyeres, €82 for lift, pressure wash and back. A Travelift is easily the fastest way of lifting and re-launching boats, but it halves the untilisation of standing space. The most slick lift operation I've experienced was at Monfalcone. 20' including wash and parking, they used a trailer for parking with the cradle pre-installed.

 

[rivonia]

Thank you every one who replied either posotive or negative. I have broad shoulders so can take the ribald comments.

We will NOT be wintering there now as we did not like what we heard. However we shall pop in for a look see and you never know may perhaps change our mind

Fair winds

Peter

 

[gruntle]

Our experience of Messolonghi during five months over the winter 2009/2010 was, to say the least, mixed. The town and local tradespeople couldnt have been more welcoming, and there was a fair amount of social interaction between the liveaboards (some of us, anyway) and the locals. Coversations with the locals reveal that the management of the yard are almost universally unpopular in the town due to the way that they are conducting their business. This seems to be borne out by the treatment of some of their fee paying customers as well. Yiannis is in my experience, a very difficult man to deal with.

He will not accept any form of criticism or complaint, no matter how reasonable it may be, and reacts by shouting at you, the paying customer. In my case, this happened when we were craned out, and the boat was left in a position about 15 degrees off vertical athwartships and 10 degrees down by the bow. He absolutely refused to re lift the boat to settle it in a better position using the crane, (because he was paying a sub contractor a fee per lift), instead insisting that he would be able to level the boat by adjusting the cradle. The cradles are all designed for fin keelers, and as we are a long keel, the props weren't under the boat supporting it, but were pressing on the sides of the hull. As a result, the stresses on the props meant that there was no way he could adjust the position in this way, and we only resolved the issue by waiting until he disappeared for lunch (the usual 3 hour affair) and asked the crane driver directly to sort it out. The crane driver is very professional, and was more than happy to sort it out. In my humble opinion, this is not the way to deal with customers; I for one do not expect to be confronted by a Marina "manager" in such a very aggresive manner, when all I have done is voice a legitimate concern, in a polite and reasonable manner.

We too were deposited on some bits of scrap timber, which immeditaly collapsed. I had to cut blocks and 6 props and wedges myself, before I felt comfortable with the way the boat was being supported.

When we lifted back in, a short section of toe rail was broken, because he adamantly refuses to use a spreader on the strops.

We were told way back in November that the hydraulic trailer was imminent. I expect it will turn up at some point.

A local man (the town dentist) had his power boat lifted, and it was deposited on one of the famous cradles. Because the cradle was designed for a fin keeled yacht, the power boat ended up about 3 metres off the ground. It was also left about 10 degrees off plumb. The dentist was not a happy bunny.

We all know about the lack of facilities over the winter, and to be honest, we all got on with it. It doesnt take too long to get used to paddling in raw sewage when having a shower. It's interesting to note the introduction of surcharges for what seems to be everything he can think of. It seems he'll be shortly be weighing everyone before and after a visit to the toilets and charging by weight of deposit.

The standard of workmanship by his "boat maintenance specialists" (effectively his brickies) is quite frankly appalling. He was asked to Copper coat the bottom of a boat. The preparation consisted of his brickies removing some, but not all, of the existing antifouling with an angle grinder. This had the effect of removing a fair amount of gelcoat as well. When the coppercoat was finally applied, it crazed and started to peel off within a week.

In short, we had a great time in Messolonghi over the winter. However, I personally wouldnt trust Yiannis as far as I could throw him, on both a personal and professional level. If they want to start charging "proper" marina prices, they should get their acts together, and try running a "proper" marina.

 

[gruntle]

Dont worry about the lifting facilities. We are 22 tonne and were lifted in and out very professionally last October and March. We like the place so we have renewed our winter contract for next winter already. If you are one of those winging gits that complain about everything (There were a couple last winter) then please stay away and let enjoy our little bit of undescovered Greece. I personally can't speak highly enough about the management here.

Winging gits? Don't remember you being there over the winter at all. You don't know me, I don't know you. Lets not start criticising each other without at least meeting up at least once. It's easy not to complain when you run off home for the winter.

 

[charles_reed]

Personally I suspect the criticisms are probably justified.
Yainnis does vehemently deny criticism - as he confessed, when I laughingly told him he wasn't good at listening to his customers, he pointed out he was Greek. No Greek accepts criticism - he delivers a counter-blast.
However he has taken on board the awful dunnage he used at first, and later cranages have moderately good support. I'll do some structural analyses and prove to him his "Grendels" aren't as good as he thinks. The support for some boats that have been on the hard since the start, make me shudder.

I spoke with Jo about the unreasonable mark-up on electricity. To my amazement within 4 hours he had upped the €1 charge to give 4kWh with no time limit.

Having had many difficult clients in the past, I think we have to recognise that, Yiannis especially, needs careful handling.
My impression is that they intend to do well - there is a recognition that success will only come to them by filling the marina with happy, paying clients.
Personally, I think, they have the potential, and desire, to be the "best" marina on the W side of Greece.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Speaks the voice of reason, Charles!

You're quite right. Many people who visit just don't understand the norms of conversation in country Greece. The slightest criticism or disagreement about what anyone might say will give rise to a loud and powerful rebuttal. It'll be bounced back twofold. The shouting will escalate. Insults will fly. Then, suddenly, all will slow down, smiles will be exchanged, conversation returns to (what some northern Europeans consider) normal and what some Greek consider dull.

Some other things which offend northern Europeans (through mis-understanding) are:

A surly silence when you enter a small shop. Wrong. It's not a surly silence. The person who enters a shop normally greets all within with a "Kalimera"; the response is "oriste?" (what do you want?), and when you've stated your wish, conversation will flow again. Staying silent on entry doesn't allow this polite routine . . .

Your coffee is banged down on the table. So is your change. No, he's not angry with you. This is normal - a bit like the way Parisians can't talk without nearly becoming airborne from multiple gesticulations. A cultural norm. Nothing to do with you.

 

[rivonia]

I just had to come back and reply; Yes the description of the greeks is especially enlightening. We lived in Sth Cyprus for 5.5years and we both speak some greek. At first we thought that they were arguing a lot and at times we thought a fight was about to develop. We of course soon found this is the normal greek way of having a conversation.

Nice to hear about the Electricity now "WHAT ABOUT THE SHOWERS"? As stated it should be inclusive.

Peter

 

[Moodyjim]

We are "targeting" Messy for this winter having paid a small deposit but have doubts about the distance from town. What's the best alternative though?

 

[charles_reed]

We are "targeting" Messy for this winter having paid a small deposit but have doubts about the distance from town. What's the best alternative though?

Depends on what you mean by "best".

Good Points:
1. Extremely well protected, apart from some of the most stable pontoons I've ever come across, there are a set of wave breaks - it compares very favourably with Kalamata, and is slightly better than Levkas and noticeably better than Gouvia.
2. Palatial and amply large showers, with plenty of hot water, if you use your switch card (of course if, like Rivonia, you have a constitutional aversion to paying for your shower ;-) you can have a free cold one.
3. Plenty of electricity points, now set to give 4kW for yout €1.
4. Prices which are about 60% of Kalamata winter rates and about 45% of other G&J marinas.
5. Ample, good, fresh fish at very reasonable prices. It is, after all, a working fishing port.

Negative Points
1. An uncomfortable walking distance from the town - you really do need a bike or a car.
2. No cut-price places stores such as Lidl in the town, you have to go to Patras.
3. Surfaces with lots of stones, craters and ridges (after 2 punctures I felt strongly about this)
4. Crane, to be replaced with a hydraulic trailer - a Travelift is faster, more convenient and less owner-hassle.

There are other points - Mesologi is not a tourist area - so locals aren't suffering from tourist overexposure, they're genuinely friendly and glad to see you. Prices are reasonable, about 70% of Kerkyra, to eat out, but Kalamata remains the economy centre for me.
I'm not sure about Yianni's new improved grendels - his originals were disasters in waiting. For a civil engineer he appears to have a blind spot in stress calculation. Mind you most Greek cradles make me wince (with the honourable exception of Aktio Marine) - fortunately my boat doesn't need them.

And yes, Yiannis (and Jo) are learning to listen to their customers!!!

 

[Moodyjim]

I chose Messy not just on price but because we don't have to come out this year (or next) as we are recently Coppercoated. The position in the Ionian etc. is central for cruising and I am not daft enough to expect too much from a marina under construction. That said I chose it on the basis that it should be two thirds or more done by the time we arrive and there seems to be a good live-aboard lot there even if we aren't, because I need to work for a living/keep the boat etc. What I really want is nice people and a nice place!!!! We have a couple of as yet unnassembled bikes that may work for the ride into town. Trivia such as cost of a shower I prefer not to consider! Shopping consists of fairly basic stuff and wine/beer. Cut price places not required if the goods are available.
Economy is only a part of the equation for us, "enjoyability" is a big part, therefore if there is a permanent "atmosphere" I would sooner stay somewhere a liitle more expensive really. What say you Monsieur Reed?

 

[charles_reed]

I chose Messy not just on price but because we don't have to come out this year (or next) as we are recently Coppercoated. The position in the Ionian etc. is central for cruising and I am not daft enough to expect too much from a marina under construction. That said I chose it on the basis that it should be two thirds or more done by the time we arrive and there seems to be a good live-aboard lot there even if we aren't, because I need to work for a living/keep the boat etc. What I really want is nice people and a nice place!!!! We have a couple of as yet unnassembled bikes that may work for the ride into town. Trivia such as cost of a shower I prefer not to consider! Shopping consists of fairly basic stuff and wine/beer. Cut price places not required if the goods are available.
Economy is only a part of the equation for us, "enjoyability" is a big part, therefore if there is a permanent "atmosphere" I would sooner stay somewhere a liitle more expensive really. What say you Monsieur Reed?

I noted no "atmosphere", the liveaboards are mainly French and British in equal proportions, but there are few, if any all year-round people. Included though in the "permanaent" population are Netherlands, a few Germans and Belgians, 2 Israeli boats and odd assorted Scandanavians. English is marginally the most extensively spoken language (probably because Marta and Yiannis only speak English (sort of) and Greek). Spiro, the security, understands more English than he speaks, is extremely good-natured and pretty bright.

Small-wheel bikes will just be adequate for the trip into town, but you'd be pretty obsessive about the adequacy and completion of your shopping list. It's not the sort of trip you'd willingly make in the rain.

For me it's a relatively unspoilt Greek town, and the central, pedestrianised area is more pleasant than most Greek town centres, so I like it.

I've signed an annual deal, only marginally because of cost, but because I do think the owners have a most un-Greek ambition to do better than the competition. Besides I can keep my French up-to-speed with the gregarious French lot.

 

[affinite]

A word of support for Messy

Come on guys
You are forgetting the fabulous adventure playground on site. Where else in the Med can you find a Marina with an F16 Fighter, a Sherman tank and a SCUD missile launcher for the kiddies to play on !