Mediterranean living costs

Storyline

Storyline

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Apologies if this comes up frequently but I rarely read this forum and presumably information becomes outdated fairly quickly.

Any ideas how much it costs monthly to fund a modest liveaboard life in the Med ?
This does not include boat maintenance as that is how long is a piece of string type question.
The boat is 36' and summer would I think be mainly on the hook but some marina visits. Not sure about the winter, might stay or come back to UK.
So, just the out of pocket costs for living and occasional berthing. Quite happy with our own company so would not spend an excessive amount of time in bars !
This is very much an embryonic idea - coming up to the time of life when we have a chance to make radical changes and just wondering if it could be funded by renting out our house.
 
Storyline said:
Apologies if this comes up frequently but I rarely read this forum and presumably information becomes outdated fairly quickly.

Any ideas how much it costs monthly to fund a modest liveaboard life in the Med ?
This does not include boat maintenance as that is how long is a piece of string type question.
The boat is 36' and summer would I think be mainly on the hook but some marina visits. Not sure about the winter, might stay or come back to UK.
So, just the out of pocket costs for living and occasional berthing. Quite happy with our own company so would not spend an excessive amount of time in bars !
This is very much an embryonic idea - coming up to the time of life when we have a chance to make radical changes and just wondering if it could be funded by renting out our house.
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The problem of course is which part of then med you wish to be in. If you are price sensitive and chose the 'bucket seats' you can mooch around Greece on a budget of 10 quid a day for two excluding boat related costs and that's not living in pasta or baked beans either. The longer you spend living aboard the cheaper overall costs are because the expensive bit is parking your floating plastic somewhere. Winter back in the uk will be the expensive bit. A few years ago I started a post called what should the budget be when I was in your situation. your boat is the right size for cost conscious sailing too.

If you want to use marinas in the med for the odd day during the summer months you are looking at uk prices. For the cost conscious sailor marinas are considered a port of refuge.

The sole income of renting out one house probably won't be enough overall. A budget of around £1000 to £1500 a month should cover everything including winter parking but it can be done on less as I am sure some on here will verify
 
Storyline said:
Apologies if this comes up frequently but I rarely read this forum and presumably information becomes outdated fairly quickly.

Any ideas how much it costs monthly to fund a modest liveaboard life in the Med ?
This does not include boat maintenance as that is how long is a piece of string type question.
The boat is 36' and summer would I think be mainly on the hook but some marina visits. Not sure about the winter, might stay or come back to UK.
So, just the out of pocket costs for living and occasional berthing. Quite happy with our own company so would not spend an excessive amount of time in bars !
This is very much an embryonic idea - coming up to the time of life when we have a chance to make radical changes and just wondering if it could be funded by renting out our house.
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If you do a search on the subject you will find masses of info - but no definitive answer. If you ignore your boat costs, daily costs are similar to daily costs while living at home - so just like home will depend on your lifestyle - whether you are Fray Bentos and pasta washed down with tea or 3 course gourmet meal with a bottle of wine and regular supply of beer to keep fluid levels up. What you spend your money on will depend on your preferences, but most people find that, particularly in the east they eat out more than at home.

At the end of the day you learn to live within your budget and the consensus suggests that a budget of £1000-1500 a month for a couple is more than enough and could include much of the boat costs barring major replacements. Lots of people do it on retirement income plus income from savings or rent of house at home. If you are giving up "work" for a couple of years and have no income then it might be sensible to have cash or near cash resources of around £20k for each year away. Things that gobble up money apart from the boat are sightseeing trips, car hire, flights home etc.
 
daveg45 said:
Hi Vic I am doing great thanks. Getting fat though on all this cash I am spending on food though. Yes I am aware you can get cat food for 1.5 euros a tin but then what does the cat eat Vic? ��
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Let get it right , .50 cent for the tin of cat food , 1 Euros for the wine , as for what the cat eats , what ever I can catch .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
Dear friend the cheapest parts of the med are Greece and Turkey, probably some parts of Spain have similar low prices (around 10-20 euros a day for the harbour) in North Italy prices for harbours are similar to UK, in south. Italy something less not that much but let's say half.
To eat Greece and turkey are very cheap guess around 10 euro a day, south Italy is cheap, north italy much more expensive.... Spain. I would say is similar to south Italy
Boat care, also for this South italy is cheaper than North, Greece and Turkey are cheaper.

Is correct to say that much depends on your lifestyle... I believe that without considering boat care, but considering staying in harbours, around 800 euro could be probably sufficient in Spain and Italy, good - very good in Greece and Turkey.
I would say that Croatia is something in between South Italy and Greece-Turkey....

Hope is clear....

Another note, if you want to leave your boat in Italy, please remember that a lot of harbours perform big discounts for winter stay....
 
Just to go back to what Infinity said , about Croatia , food here isn't really and different price them most of the Med , as Long as you use the markets and super markets , if you use the small shops on the islands expect to pay more but most of the islands have super market if you go to the Major towns .
The real problem here is for people who want to use marinas , harbour walls and mooring buoys the cost of theses are eye watering , so you must be happy to be able to sleep on your hook , the surprise thing we found is the amount of people who do pay to use mooring buoys and Harbour , it suite us to the ground as it leaves the anchorage almost empty , even now in the high of the summer with hundreds of boats sailing about come night time unless you go to the poplar anchorage most of the others are almost empty .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, it sounds like 2k a month for the eastern Med which without knowledge seems to be my sort of area sounds doable, loved Greece in the mid 1970's !

Does anyone winter in the med and live in the UK for the summer or is the winter a bit too difficult/harsh to have a pleasant life ?
 
Tranona said:
If you do a search on the subject you will find masses of info - but no definitive answer. If you ignore your boat costs, daily costs are similar to daily costs while living at home - so just like home will depend on your lifestyle - whether you are Fray Bentos and pasta washed down with tea or 3 course gourmet meal with a bottle of wine and regular supply of beer to keep fluid levels up. What you spend your money on will depend on your preferences, but most people find that, particularly in the east they eat out more than at home.

At the end of the day you learn to live within your budget and the consensus suggests that a budget of £1000-1500 a month for a couple is more than enough and could include much of the boat costs barring major replacements. Lots of people do it on retirement income plus income from savings or rent of house at home. If you are giving up "work" for a couple of years and have no income then it might be sensible to have cash or near cash resources of around £20k for each year away. Things that gobble up money apart from the boat are sightseeing trips, car hire, flights home etc.
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As Tranona asks - how long is a piece of string - what I can say is comparing 6 months @ home and 6 months on the boat in Greece, the boat wins hands down @ about 35% of the costs of the UK. Food, drink, local taxes, higher fuel costs make up most of the difference.
I'm afraid it's probably unsafe to exclude the maintenance costs of the boat - that I find to be the biggest single non-recurrent expense. My costs this season, in Greece, have worked out @ €1500/month, of which €330/month has been maintenance (no big items like anchors, pumps or sails). I could reduce my costs dramatically by not eating out, because that runs @ €455/month. So based on not eating out and no boat maintenance, €715/month, of which port dues and marina costs amount to €300/month (includes last tranche of overwintering costs). So €415/month per head should see you covered if you only eat aboard, anchor everywhere, but motor frequently to top up your batteries. That's £330/month each. Norna Biron will give a you very much lower figure, they spent the winter anchored in Spinalonga, where I've spent a week on & off, this month. Exclude diesel @ €80/month (in theory, with immense patience you could sail everywhere) and it could be even cheaper.
You takes your pick and pays your whack.
I will point out, that Greece, in recession for the last 4 years, is far cheaper now than when I arrived. I'd expect the same of Spain, but France and Italy are mind-blowingly expensive, as is Turkey (by recent reports) now.
Interestingly enough, though I've not included air fares in the above, my flight out to Thessaloniki cost £17.50 (+£40 excess baggage for a new Vektran main) and back is €42.40 ATH-LHR, $24.80 SKL-ATH. My experience is that if you don't travel at peak holiday times, book 12-13 weeks in advance and avoid the so-called "budget airlines", flight costs are low - but getting to UK airports usually exceeds the airfare.
 
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Storyline said:
Does anyone winter in the med and live in the UK for the summer or is the winter a bit too difficult/harsh to have a pleasant life ?
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We do.

I was going to comment on your remark about returning for the winter.

We spend mid Sep to mid June on a 9 month marina contract in Portugal (spent 8 years more or less on the hook so done that). For us, the heat, crowds and hyped up prices of the summer in Southern Europe are too much.

Spend a very pleasant three months in the summer driving to and fro with lots of things to do back in UK. Quite a few on the Algarve seem to do the same thing.

The savings on home heating plus the savings on 100 litres of wine brought back for the summer go a long way to paying for the remaining nine months.

Not recommending you do the same; it is perfectly feasible to anchor year round and I would not have missed the freedom of that for the world but, sooner or later and for the majority, circumstances will dictate a slightly more regulated lifestyle.
 
charles_reed said:
I will point out, that Greece, in recession for the last 4 years, is far cheaper now than when I arrived. I'd expect the same of Spain, but France and Italy are mind-blowingly expensive, as is Turkey (by recent reports) now.
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Hmm, compared to wintering in Switzerland, my Italian summers are not at all expensive in comparison. I rarely eat in restaurants other than the non-touristy ones for the workers' midday menu (at €10, three courses including bread, wine, water and coffee); shop in street markets and the more down-market stores, such as INS. I still live very well - too well as my waistline shows.

But Charles is spot-on with not ignoring maintenance; not a year goes by without something needing replacing or repairing, be it engine parts, batteries, sails or cockpit cover.

Something few mention is anti-fouling. EU restrictions on the toxicity of leisure boat anti-fouling paint plus a noticeable warming of the sea-water in the northern Adriatic where I sail, has resulted in such an increase of fouling that hauling out every year is now necessary when before I could manage with two years, or even three, if not fussy and periodically dived with a scraper at anchor. With lift out and in, wash-down and storage for a few days, even without the astronomical paint cost, this is a significant annual expense. With little tide there is no leaning against a wall for a scrub-down or, as some do in the UK, a coat of anti-fouling applied between tides.
 
Barnac1e said:
But Charles is spot-on with not ignoring maintenance; not a year goes by without something needing replacing or repairing, be it engine parts, batteries, sails or cockpit cover.
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Not just cost, but stress.

A cutless bearing may cost just a few quid but by the time you have found a place to lift out, paid for lift and launch, pressure wash, blocking off, storage, somewhere to say (many yards not permitting living aboard), the work to be done (many yards not permitting you to do your own work).......

It is easy to rationalise these things in an attempt to justify the whole operation. I know! I am as guilty as the next man.

Even 'planned maintenance', as Barnac1e mentions, can be more expensive than anticipated, emergency stuff even more so.

I once mentioned the figure of 10% of the boat's value should be set aside for maintenance. I was flamed. But I suggest this, when amortised over a five year period, is not far out. Of course, some people do not maintain their boat properly - but they pay the price in the end.
 
chinita said:
We do.

I was going to comment on your remark about returning for the winter.

We spend mid Sep to mid June on a 9 month marina contract in Portugal (spent 8 years more or less on the hook so done that). For us, the heat, crowds and hyped up prices of the summer in Southern Europe are too much..
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My experience of wintering in Portugal (Portimao) was the fact that in winter the Algarve simply shuts down after October half term. Tourists outnumber locals something like 10 to one. You will find the odd bar populated by a few ex pats for company at best and at worst find yourself in some live aboard marina offering special deals for winter berthing. There you will be woken by the 9 o'clock radio net because neighbouring boats have their VHF on full tilt. You will have the opportunity to get involved with yoga at 7am by some old insomniac, get drawn into 'pot luck pontoon parties' where you will be able to wear a name badge so others can get to know you. You will have the lowdown on new arrivals, probably non, departures, again probably non, any emergency....erm..non again. You will listen to people arranging their turn to use the joint hire car even though the guy organising it is no more than 3 boats away from the enquirer. All this will be your 'alarm call' probably way before you have even thought about putting the kettle on. You may find youself in the pleasant waters of marina de Ragusa in October where you can witness the place turn into an open sewer a few months later because people simply cannot be arsed to make it to the toilet block. Probably in fear of missing the radio net.

If you still have any spark of life in you I will give you two months before you are searching sky scanner for a cheap flight out of there. Generally the further east you go the shorter the season is. In the UK I lived aboard all year round. Now it seems the best I get is mid April to mid October/November and to be honest there is little to be gained coming back out before May.

I hope that helps.
 
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daveg45 said:
My experience of wintering in Portugal (Portimao) was the fact that in winter the Algarve simply shuts down after October half term. Tourists outnumber locals something like 10 to one. You will find the odd bar populated by a few ex pats for company at best and at worst find yourself in some live aboard marina offering special deals for winter berthing. There you will be woken by the 9 o'clock radio net because neighbouring boats have their VHF on full tilt. You will have the opportunity to get involved with yoga at 7pm by some old insomniac, get drawn into 'pot luck pontoon parties' where you will be able to wear a name badge so others can get to know you. You will have the lowdown on new arrivals, probably non, departures, again probably non, any emergency....erm..non again. You will listen to people arranging their turn to use the joint hire car even though the guy organising it is no more than 3 boats away from the enquirer. All this will be your 'alarm call' probably way before you have even thought about putting the kettle on. You may find youself in the pleasant waters of marina de Ragusa in October where you can witness the place turn into an open sewer a few months later because people simply cannot be arsed to make it to the toilet block. Probably in fear of missing the radio net.

If you still have any spark of life in you I will give you two months before you are searching sky scanner for a cheap flight out of there. Generally the further east you go the shorter the season is. In the UK I lived aboard all year round. Now it seems the best I get is mid April to mid October/November and to be honest there is little to be gained coming back out before May.

I hope that helps.
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Got to be one of the best posts of all time:encouragement:
 
jordanbasset said:
Got to be one of the best posts of all time:encouragement:
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You are obviously a Victor Meldrew fan! There is a certain charm about such disallusionment. I would agree living cheek by jowl with others in a marina is unlikely to be rewarding for some, particularly if you have a dim view of humanity.

A 7 year old on a nearby boat once said to me that cruising was a great way of meeting new friends and then leaving before you found out what you dont like about them! If you don't like where you are - move on.
 
silver-fox said:
You are obviously a Victor Meldrew fan! There is a certain charm about such disallusionment. I would agree living cheek by jowl with others in a marina is unlikely to be rewarding for some, particularly if you have a dim view of humanity.

A 7 year old on a nearby boat once said to me that cruising was a great way of meeting new friends and then leaving before you found out what you dont like about them! If you don't like where you are - move on.
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Agree with that, I did like One Foot in the Grave. As to this, the whole post made me laugh, just as I thought the moaning could not get worse it was turned up a notch - my kind of humour
 
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