MCA Registration

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edowns

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I have bought a boat which is registered under MCA Part 1. I want to register her with the MCA to make overseas trip easier on the paperwork. However, to transfer the ownership within Part 1 will cost £80. To cancel it and register under Part 3 (SSR) will cost £25.
Apart from the romance of keeping the original registration going are there any reasons why I should not transfer to Part 3 registarion?
Thanks
 
Advantages of sticking with Part 1 are: it's proof you own the boat (Part 3 isn't), which can be reassuring to a purchaser of your boat, apart from for yourself. It can be challenging to get Pt 1 registration so if in the future you or another owner decide you want it, it will be possibly major hassle getting it back. If you/future owner need it to take out a marine mortgage over the boat - the lender will insist on it.

BTW when you buy a boat that is only Part 3 registered, or unregistered, you are in effect taking the seller's word for it that he/she owns the boat. Previous bills of sale are no real proof because they don't prove that the boat hasn't been sold to someone else in the meantime, and Bills of Sale are terribly easy to forge anyway (how many people really check the signatures and go back and dig out previous owners?).
 
From other posts it seems that Part I is more respected abroad than Part III.

If your Part I registraton lapses for more than twelve months, then remeasurement is necessary.

This has a standard cost of £140.

The measurements taken are the overall (hull) length, the maximum beam, and the depth from the underside of the deck head to the cabin sole at the point of maximum beam.

The latter excludes the coachroof, and is measured to where the sidedeck section would be, extended to the centreline, i.e. it is a vague point in space.

The three are multiplied together with a factor to give the measurement in tons.

The original tonnage will already be carved somewhere on the boat.

Chances are that the new tonnage will be slightly different from the old, necessitating recarving.

I have been through this, leaving me with an old glassed in board (in the heads) which ties in with the old Blue book, and, below it a board which has the details as on the new A4 encapsulated sheet.

I have raised this with the RYA asking if a longer time period before remeasurement could be allowed, on the grounds that non of the dimensions are likely to change, and the very complex process for new mercant ships has already been simplified for yachts.


My conclusion is that it is preferable to renew the Part I whilst it is still active, than to move to Part III
 
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Apart from the romance of keeping the original registration going are there any reasons why I should not transfer to Part 3 registarion?


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No Brainer, as the Yanks would say.

Part 1 is like registering your house at the land registry, and is as good a proof of ownership as you can get, and if ever you, (or a buyer), need a marine mortgage, the lender will probably require Part 1.

What kind of boat and how much did it cost? I'm only asking because £55 is a mere drop in the ocean relative to what many boats cost, and to what you are going to spend on it. And the cost and hassle of not retaining Part 1 is substantial if you ever want to reinstate it, (hassle mainly).
 
See if you can transfer the registration to Jersey,Channel Islands.One off lifetime fee and no Insurance Premium Tax so Gordon doesn't get anything.
 
Sorry guys, Part 1 registration is NOT proof of ownership. The MOST RECENT Bill of Sale is the ONLY proof of ownership. If you talk to the MCA Registry they will confirm this. Part 1 Registration is simply proof of ownership at the time of registration. However, if there are any marine mortgages on the craft, they must be recorded at the registry - and a copy of the transcript can be obtained - for a fee - by the potential buyer (or anyone for that matter). This is the prime advantage of Part 1 Registration for most small craft. For larger craft and / or if you wish to use commercially / charter etc, the situation is different and often Part 1 registration can become compulsary.
 
Stick with the Part 1 registry.
Most customs officials, harbour masters, etc overseas are familier with it.

Keep the bill of Sale with it as proof of ownership, we have had our encapsulated and a number of copies made just in case. It all helps to keep the rubber stampers happy!

Its a bit of a pain with the paperwork but its worth keeping it.

The Part 3 (SSR) isn't worh the paper its printed on as it dosn't prove anything. I certainly wouldn't opt out of Part 1 registry if the boat allready has it.
 
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Sorry guys, Part 1 registration is NOT proof of ownership. The MOST RECENT Bill of Sale is the ONLY proof of ownership.

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I will bow to your experience and am happy to stand corrected but:

1) If I approach you to sell my boat, (which was registered part 1 when I bought it but isnt anymore), and provide a Bill of Sale confirming my purchase, you presumably check the register and find it was deregistered at the time I bought it, so that looks like reasonable proof of ownership.

2) If I do the same, but provide a Bill of Sale and Part 1 registration certificate, and you check the register, is that not "better" proof of ownership?

3) If I provide a Bill of Sale, and you find that it is still registered in the previous owners name, doesnt that raise some suspicions, which you will want satisfying?

Wouldnt buyers prefer the boat in example 2, rather than example 1.... and isnt it possible that they might wonder why I had deregistered it and perhaps be a little suspicious? I'm sure they wouldnt want to touch the boat in example 3 with a barge pole?
 
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The MOST RECENT Bill of Sale is the ONLY proof of ownership.

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I don't believe that that's right, for a start it is possible to transfer property in an unregistered yacht without a Bill of Sale, for example by an oral agreement. At least that is generally the case at law with unregistered property other than land and buildings, unless you can point to something special in marine law that says different.

For registered property, English law normally works so that the register defines legal title. This is in effect what Schedule 1 Para 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act means when it says "Subject to any rights and powers appearing from the register to be vested in any other person, the registered owner of a ship or of a share in a ship shall have power absolutely to dispose of it..." In other words, whoever is the registered owner is the guy who has the right to sell it.

The Part 1 certificate expressly states on its face that it is NOT proof of ownership. That is right because it is the register itself, not the certificate, which proves ownership. The idea is to prevent lost or stolen Part 1 certificates being used fraudulently to 'prove' ownership. What matters is what's written on the register.

Incidentally, the people at the MCA registration place who carry out the registrations are not lawyers, and don't seem to be very familiar with some of the issues. At least the one I dealt with for registration didn't...
 
Agree with you fully on this one, Richard!

If a boat has any signigficant value, especially if there is ANY chance of a Marine Mortgage on it it will be easier to sell if it is Part One Registered.

If you buy a boat that is Part One Registered and it has significant value it always pays to keep up the registration - and for the sake of the £80 transfer fee - I'd say go for it every time.
 
Hi Simon

My discussion was about proof of ownership -

Take the case of a registered vessel that has been sold - with a legitimate Bill of Sale where no one has advised the registry that the craft has been sold, this often happens, especially with private sales.

Under these circumstances the register is wrong but the new owner IS the owner.
 
In this case the way that it normally works in English is that the seller still holds legal ownership as long as he remains registered on the register. But the purchaser is the "beneficial owner" in the meantime. In other words, the registered legal owner holds the property on trust for the purchaser. There is a kind of split in the ownership.

Being beneficial owner is OK in some senses as a temporary thing but there are real dangers eg. if the legal owner fraudulently sells the property a second time to a "bona fide purchaser for value without notice" of the first sale, then you're stuffed.
 
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The Part 3 (SSR) isn't worh the paper its printed on as it dosn't prove anything.

[/ QUOTE ] In general terms you may be right. But on Windermere at present the SSR part3 is worth 5 years registration fees (less £25 SSR fee)
For us with a 5.5 metre boat that is going to be a saving of £291.25 over 5 years.
For your average 33ft AWB that's going to be saving of £110 per year (£550 in total).
Of course the LDNPA may move the goal posts again, but I've registered Part3 in the hope they don't.
 
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Agree with you fully on this one, Richard!



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Just waiting for tcm to say the same in respect of my scuba diving physics <g>

(which may mean nothing to you at all <g>)
 
Thanks for all the responses.
Still not clear what I'll do: it is £55 but boats cost so much anyway; I am not anticipating a boat mortgage or sailing on Windermere; neither are definite proof of ownership, so perhaps it is down to the "romance of 40 years worth of part 1 registration"
Thanks for all the input< now to decide!
 
Sorry, just to clarify, the previous posts on it were a bit convoluted and perhaps hard to follow - I for one am reasonably happy that Part 1 registration IS proof of legal ownership.
 
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