MCA Murder and Abortion Kit

[Dominic]

If you charter a boat or attend an RYA course you will find on board a First Aid Kit as laid down by the MCA.

Merchant Shipping Notice 1726 details the contents - it runs to 43 pages but pages 17 and 18 list what a yacht working up to 60 miles from land should carry.

Two items catch the eye. Gylceryl Trinitrate Spray aerosol and Ergometrine Maleate ampoules.

The first (GTN) will come in a spray form - rather like the Gold Spot breath freshner. The second is in injectable ampoules and will need to be administered with a syringe.

With the first (GTN) - wait until your hated one is fast asleep after a good night out then give him/her about 5 doses sprayed over the mouth and nostrils while he/she sleeps.
This should cause death. (With 200 doses to the aerosol they will never know many you used.)

I do not know what traces will be left in the body and I hope a pathologist will respond.

The second will probably require two doses to cause an abortion. Useful if that is what you want.
Again I defer to expert opinion.

They are there for the treatment of angina and vaginal bleeding among the crew.

In the case of an RYA course - Do you trust the instructor who has had a one day first aid course to administer these drugs to you ?

In the case of a charter - Are you aware of what you signed for when you took over the boat ? Are you qualified to use the drugs you must carry ?

Do you seriously believe that these drugs should be on a yacht, in the control of those who are not qualified to administer them, while the yacht is within a few hours of land or fast medical evacuation ?


We have fallen into a crazy situation where the law requires the skipper to carry certain drugs but he knows that he will be sued to hell if they are ever used.



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[NigeCh]

What else don\'t we know about ????

Here's a link to confirm what Dominic says:

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/msn/msn1726.pdf

Read page 2. (I often act as professional crew and didn't know this)

As boaters we have to be aware of all the laws that effect us by default. If you enter the MCA site and look at the regulations that DO affect us then you'll surely agree that YM could publish enough info on what we don't know for the next 240 issues.

So here we are, boaters all, and most of us haven't a clue what either the UK or EU or whatever laws there are, are about ... and yet we are culpable of ignorance, not by default, but by sheer plain ignorance as we didn't know that such laws existed. I don't think that I'm alone on this.

My first aid kit comprises: aspirin, paracetemol, stugeron, electrical tape, lollypop sticks, clingfilm, bandages (old handkerchiefs) and a pair of scissors. The secondary 1st aid kit comprises a bottle of Spanish Brandy, 1/2 lb butter, a jar of honey and a hand of fresh ginger.

Over to Paul Gelder .... Come on YM, let's have a legal section in YM to tell us what a) we don't know and b) what we need to know.

 

[qsiv]

Very scary stuff. At a simpler level I see that there are meant to be 50 Paracetemol 500 - with a marginal dangerous dose as low as 12 tablets in 24 hours, and a lethal dose at about 16, theres plenty of scope here. There is a real danger of people in significant pain overdosing simply by taking more tablets to cope with the pain.

Having had to deal with three overdoses in the last 6 months I just cannot understand why a) they dont reccomend a non toxic analgesic (there is more than adequate choice, starting with Ibuprofen), and b) the UK formulations do not do as they do in America, and include the antidote (Parvolax) in the tablet (yes I know it's money, but most of us would pay a penny or two extra, and it would save the NHS millions).


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[vyv_cox]

My daughter is currently putting together a first aid kit for her sailing club. It seems that in order to protect potential users from allergic reaction, possible overdose, etc., the list of trouble-free contents barely goes further than a triangular bandage! I was not aware that some people are allergic to sticking plaster, for instance, but the advice she has received is that none should be included in case an allegic sufferer might decide to sue the club who had treated him. Advice is not to include Paracetamol, aspirin or Ibuprofen in case of reaction, stomach or liver damage, and so on.

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[oldharry]

One of the requirements of my work is that I am trained in primary First Aid. Firstly re sticking plaster allergies, there are substitutues widely available at any Pharmacy - but of course at about twice the price of regular plasters!

Secondly we are told that anyone attempting to save life by for example applying ECM can not be sued if they either injure the person they are resuscitating (cracked ribs are not uncommon) or if they fail to resuscitate them. How far that extends to non-life threatening situations like putting sticking plaster on someone who is allergic to them I dont know, but I beleive immunity to being sued comes from the an area of legislation to do with a citizens duty to others. In other words if I having been trained to do so, apply my skills, and either fail to revive you, or revive you but injure you in the process, I cannot be held legally responsible for the consequences of my attempt to assist. Doctors, being much more highly trained and qualified are expected to demonstrate a much higher degree of skill, and therefore accountability for their actions.

Legal types - what are your comments? I have never been quite convinced that this advice is entirely correct. But it is an important issue for anyone who is in the position of being required to give medical asistance or to keep and know how to use medical supplies on their boat for example. Quite apart from the Sailing Club 1st aid kit issue.

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[Badger]

What is ECM ?

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[Evadne]

When you give blood they ask you if you are allergic to sticking plaster. If you say "no" then they are absolved of all responsibility. If you say "don't know" they use the expensive stuff, and are still absolved.

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[MedMan]

External Cardiac Massage.

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[ecudc]

I guess I'd say that (1) Anyone with angina is sure to have their pills with them anyway at all times (2) As to the second one.....thats what tampons or at worst toilet paper are for and if it's not period related or the angina sufferer does not have pills then you ought to be getting quick smart to a hospital anyway rather than trying to self treat such very serious conditions.

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[philmarks]

when I did the RYA first aid course the insturctor told us to follow the training precisely when we carried out FA (first aid that is), else we could be open to being sued if anything went wrong as a result of our actions.


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[Badger]

is that the same as CPR ?

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[Twister_Ken]

CPR?

Cweens Park Rangers?

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[Cornishman]

Are you quite sure that these items are required by Small Commercial Vessels?
I used to be a compliance inspector for the SCV Code of Practice and still have a copy of the Code. It might be out of date, but the list of contents of the First Aid kit required is to be found in Annex 6.
The only medicines listed are a seasickness remedy (Hyoscine hydrobromide 0.3mg recommended) and Paracetamol 500mg tablets.
I reckon the items you have listed are for the big yachts (over 24 metres) skippers of which are required to attend a Ships Captains Medical Course. This requirement also applies to skippers of SCVs operating in areas category 0 or 1
(either unrestricted or up to 150 miles from a safe haven).


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[Ohdrat]

Re: What else don\'t we know about ????

What do you use the lolly pop sticks for? Splints for little toe? Would have thought that you would list a biro so that you can perfom a Tracheotomy.. and what about a tampon or two for severe gashes..

P.S. hope you don't use the butter on burns..

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[charles_reed]

MSN 1726 does lay down in superfluous detail the medical stores and equipment to be carried by vessels:

The Categories are:

<< Category A Seagoing or sea-fishing vessels with no limitation on length of trips.

Category B Seagoing or sea-fishing vessels making trips of less than 150 nautical miles from the nearest port with adequate medical equipment. This category is extended to seagoing or sea-fishing vessels which make trips of less than 175 nautical miles from the nearest port with adequate medical equipment and which
remain continuously within range of helicopter rescue services.

Category C Harbour vessels, boats and craft staying very close to shore or with
no cabin accommodation other than a wheelhouse. Lifeboats and life-rafts are also required to carry Category C stores.>>

Most recreational craft would appear to fall into Category B. However there are definite exclusions and it would appear that (by omission) bareboat charter craft are NOT excluded, however I cannot see how the RYA are included.

<< 4. The following vessels are excluded from the
requirements of this Notice:
* inland navigational vessels, defined in the regulations as those vessels plying on
waters of Categories A to C as defined in Merchant Shipping Notice M1504
* warships
* pleasure boats used for non-commercial purposes and not manned by professional
crews, defined in the regulations as follows:
any vessel which at the time it is being used is:
(a)(i) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals, is used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or
friends of the owner; or
(ii) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, the persons on the vessel are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and
(b)(i) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive
money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or
(ii) any vessel wholly owned by or on behalf of a members’ club formed
for the purpose of sport or pleasure of members of that club or their immediate family; and for the use of which any charges levied are paid into club funds and applied for the general use of the club; and
(iii) in the case of any vessels referred to in paragraphs (i) or (ii) above no other payments are made by or on behalf of users of the vessel, other than by the owner.>>

The requirements are for Medical Stores NOT the First Aid box, and the requirements for category B vessels are covered in Pages 5 - 14.

The anti-haemorrhagic you refer to are specified only for those boats with female crew of childbearing age.

I have about 85% of the items listed on my boat, plus many not included - why the suture kit is left out and the lignocaine included in the MCA list for Category B, I fail to understand.

All in all, I feel it's a very useful starting point for any small boat medical stores.



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[MainlySteam]

I think you will find, as you say, that MSN 1726 does not apply to recreational vessels.

In most jurisdictions a charter vessel is a commercial vessel, even if self skippered, but that does not mean one has to carry the same equipment (LSA, medical, etc) as may apply to a charter vessel on a pleasure vessel. As people are saying, it is probably inappropriate that they do so unless they have an appropriate level of first aid training. The certificates of competencies and licences for crews of vessels required to carry such medical equipment would normally be expected to include that training.

Another post follows on charter vessels.

John

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[MainlySteam]

I agree that these are not sensible requirements if required to be carried on a self skippered charter vessel (ie the skipper is then not certificated and licenced). For commercial vessels in NZ approximately equivalent to your Category C vessels (but 100 miles, which is reckonded to be within 30 mins of medical assistance, instead of the 60miles in MSN 1726) the requirements exclude the items of concern.

John



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[Cornishman]

Be careful with your definitions.
In the UK there is no such thing as a 'recreational vessel'. Rather we have 'pleasure yachts' or 'pleasure craft' but from then on the vessel's class is 'very much dependent upon the terms on which those persons forming the crew have been appointed. It is therefore important to study the contents of Merchant Shipping Notice No M.1194' This is an extract from the Foreward to the Small Commercial Vessels Code of Practice.
M.1194 is reproduced as Annex 1 to the Code. It sorts out the difference between 'passengers' and 'persons engaged on the business of the vessel' and gives guidance regarding the status of persons when carried on board United Kingdom ships.

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[MainlySteam]

Sorry, I did not use the term trying to represent it as being that defined in any country's legislation (for example, it is "Pleasure Craft" in NZ). In general the situation is similar here as in the UK and as in at least 2 other countries I work in. Generally, the thrust for a craft not to be classed as commercial is towards it being a ship that is used exclusively for the owner's pleasure or residence and is not offered or used for hire or reward. In a practical sense that lets all recreational boating people pursuing their sport in a conventional way off the hook.

John

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[Peppermint]

Re: Having just done the RYA 1st Aid Course

It was no where near the level of prescription drug use. A mate who's done Ships Captains Medical or whatever it's called did a bit on pain relief using the strong stuff but didn't remember much on vaginal bleeding.

My comment would be that, and I think the RYA get this right, most of us sail within a couple of hours of getting help from experts so all we need to be able to do is evaluate a situation and do what we can to stabilise a patient and sustain life.

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