MBM / MBY Overlap

Re: Do you know...

Oh, go on, Sin Bin him for a laugh.

It would be a great way to get the silly season started, and generate all sorts of 'Free the Mag-less One' threads

You know you'd love to

(Sorry Barry . Heee hee)

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Re: Please get yer facts right

Yes I make no bones about it. I don't buy MBM/MBY anymore. I must fall outside the target audiance. Where have I stated 60 times in the last month that I hate the mags/website. I Haven't.
I used to buy MBM every month. It changed. I stopped buying it. You can't please all the people all the time, it just don't happen.
If you want a premium access area for subscribers fine, it'll be just an extension on the Cruising Club run by the mag.

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Let's be thankful. i confess to subscribing to MBY and MBM, and they are not that similar, yes occasionally they review the same boats. Read carefully and you will see that that the journos have different approaches. Advertisers are different

I also read PBO and YM, if you really want to read c*** try 'Sailing Today'. Last month's article on 'Les Porquerolles' was the worst 'faction' I have ever read..

- '1200 miles Calais - marseilles' -- divide by 2!
- 'Journey takes 2 days' --- do it in 6 hrs if you don't stop!
' ' We arrived back to see that a 'mistral' had washed everything clean'...the Mistral is a wind !!
'£35 taxi Nice - St Tropez'... in 1952 maybe... multiply by 3 now !!

Absolute nonsense...

etc...etc....

At least all we are moaning about it market penetration and overlap...

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
 
super markets don't put the mags on the shelf untill the date on the cover,mine are allways a month late.

<hr width=100% size=1>rich :-)) <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jersey-harbours.com>http://www.jersey-harbours.com</A>
 
Re:Editors reponse

Well its nice to see an EDITOR reading our moans,groans and wants and responding with a good constructive reply,thanks for the insight.
I still think they cater for the "Hurrah Henry's" of this world, when the masses are ignored.
You have to be a motor boat/cruiser at the lower end to fully understand our wants.
Ric

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Re: Please get yer facts right

"I used to buy MBM every month. It changed".


Sums it up perfectly Barry.

Bill.

<hr width=100% size=1>One of these days I'll have a boat that WORKS
 
Before I had a boat, I used to read PBO , and keep the mags that had articles I thought would be of use - reviews of trailer sailers I keep because one day I might like one. The problem with dedicating the magazine to requests from customer surveys I would suggest, is that the same requests keep coming up. Like on this forum, how many people ask "what boat should I get" ? How many times do you want to buya magazine with an article on close quarter handling, or pick up a bouy, or how to polish your gelcoat. Its great to have it once, but a year later, the same requests would come up again from new boaters. Either that, or the requests from current readers get so specific, no one new to the hobby would want to read the magazine. I thought the editorial request for boaters to offer their boats up for review(I think I m right arent I ?) would meet with lots of enthusiasm, and given that many people will look at second hand boats, would be of great interest in what owners liked and disliked in their current boat. But I saw another request for volunteers...does that suggest little take up? I d have thought it would make for good articles... Day out with Jolly1.. i m sure they ll need a reprint !!The attempt to list top 100 boats is a great one, although, unless I m missing a few magazines, there doesnt seem much from other side of the pond. I dont see MBM and MBY as too similar, though. There is bound to be some crossover, but they seem clearly different magazines to me.

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For those wanting to start boating, I originally tried Sportsboat & Rib magazine but the tests were few and far between. I found that MBM was beginning to do more variety and the recent cuddy comparison was well thought out. Just hope they keep doing a few more around the 20-25ft range. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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Well I can feel a little smug on that one, 'cos I did fill mine in and return.

And it was pretty complimentary!

I think a few tweaks are all that is required, I managed to unearth a 1993 copy from the loft a few weeks ago, after getting over the disapointment of it not being an old Mayfair that somehow missed the ex's cull, I read it with interest.

The format did seem much closer to what many here are suggesting, so maybe it has drifted a bit off course of late.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mboat.org>http://www.mboat.org</A></font color=blue>
 
Re:Editors reponse

Hugo has a boat worth £7,000 by his estimates and has posted that fact on here before. Again, cannot speak for him about how often he wants to tackle that sector (and he cannot speak for himself here today because he is out in the rain on a boat test) but I think it would be wrong to assume that we don't understand people who do their boating on a budget...to be frank it's actually harder for journalists to get a handle on the wants and wishes of those up at much higher price breaks as, by definition, we are not in that earning bracket ourselves.

Having said our interests are eclectic, even in the magazine teams. The two boats that I owned in the 1990s were worth £60,000 and £85,000 respectively and I had to take a huge loan and keep a very small house to make that possible.

MBM currently runs a £200,000 Sealine which still looks pretty small in many marinas today.

Looking at this ramble there is another issue that is obvious...in 1987 when we started MBM we had to worry about a price span that was mostly in the £10,000-£100,000 bracket...that covered a big chunk of the market. Now look at where things are at and you'll appreciate that the great balancing act is one that is not easy to achieve.

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Got to take issue with you there, Kev. These days, any boat with exposed wiring gets rightly panned. The incremental cost of doing things properly, in engineering terms, is negligible compared to the sales price of even small boats.

It's only this kind of nitpicking that makes the buggers improve their standards, so long may it continue. But sadly, you can probably count on the fingers of one foot the number of boats where the review says the helm ergonomics were good, irrespective of size/price.

So what about a name/shame thing? Limited to models no longer in production, to avoid hacking off the advertisers, but readers send in reports/photos of things that are criminally badly designed, along with suggestions to improve. MBM/MBY makes reading article compulsory for any advertiser, perhaps?

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<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.fairlinetarga29.info>Buy my boat!</A>
 
Lets talk over that beer at the yacht club /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
 
>>But sadly, you can probably count on the fingers of one foot the number of boats where the review says the helm ergonomics were good, irrespective of size/price<<

"The helm position is spot on, offerning good all round vision, weather protection, and comfortable support"
Regal 2250.Oct MBM.p29

/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif I seem to have grown a finger on my foot.

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Economics of magazines

But Redscouser these magazines are not run as charities. They are run to make money. The readership is less than 20,000 so to make money they have to attract advertisers, and whether we like it or not that is going to affect the broad content (not editorial). Would those 20,000 or so readers really be prepared to pay (say) £6 for a mag that had less advertising?

And when I say the mags are there to make money, it is money for you and me, not for fat cats. For a few years until the sale to Time Warner, MBM and MBY were owned by a syndicate of approx 110 pension funds. The biggest funds in this club were the UK Coal Miners Pension Fund, the UK Railway workers pension fund and the Barclays Bank employees pension fund. The trustees of those funds are under orders to maximise financial returns for the pensioners, not to serve a particular group of boat users. More recently the mags were sold to Time Warner and I dont know exactly who their shareholders are but it will be in the main another bunch of pension funds.

Not picking a fight with you, and I agree it might be better if MBY and MBM didn't overlap so much, but I'm just saying it how it is. Anyone is free to launch a mag with a different focus, but they don't........

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Not Brown nosing but....

I actually think that the difference between the two mags has become more pronounced since Tom and Hugo took over their respective organs.

It seems to me that MBM is living much more in the real world than it was. The sports cuddy group test, the Used boat reviews, The new owners reviews and articles like Neale Byatts on winterising and the Chichester Harbour guide are all aimed at the average boater and not the squillionaires that MBY cater for.

I subscribe to them both because they are about the things I am interested in and I can get as much pleasure from reading about spending £100k to transport a boat to the BVI as I do from being told how to winterise my water system and toilet.

PS - Do agree with others hereabouts about the new boat guide in MBM though, its good but not needed every month. Strangely I don't see similar criticism about the "10 best" section in MBY which also seems to be the same every month and, even worse, seems for a most part to be directly lifted from the "Your MotorBoat" special which most of us probably forked out our £3.50 for to read in our summer hols.



<hr width=100% size=1>Martyn
 
Re: Not Brown nosing but....

I think all the points and opinions that have been aired here are good and valid.
I try never to offend and never take offence of other peoples views.

I would willing pay over the odds for a magazine that covered small motor boats and cruisers rather than pay for lots of adverts and things that I will never be able to afford or run,when you break down these magazines you really only get about 20 pages if your lucky of news,gossip and reviews and if your very lucky a couple of pages that are of use to you.
Makes very expensive reading.

Still its good to hear so many opinions on this subject.
Ric



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Re: Hmmmm...

Hi

I stand by my comments that returns on magazines SHOULD be minimal. Prior to my current career I worked as Editor and in Distribution for a couple of magazines in the States.

The targets, we assumed and met were that on specificly targeted specialist titles such as 4x4 magazines, returns were kept between 3.75%- 4.5%, even with what we called untargeted magazines, more general titles where content was a major factor on each months sales we managed to never go above 9%. Thus Minimal!!!

I would put boating magazines in specialist area as opposed to general flick through mags with a broader audience and would suggest that if your returns are higher then perhaps your distribution and possibly content should be looked at or your market re ascertained.

I also stand by my comments that the tests carried out are less than objective, but again perhaps im expecting too much. I agree with what has been said that nit -picking of details is the only way to make manufacturers improve but lets make sure attention to detail is not only with Manufacturers but those who test them. Actually I came across two MBY's from a few years ago and one had a Bayliner flybridge that was pulled up on bare wires through the wardrobe, and another where a Fairline had photos into storage area and guess what it had wires showing and nothing mentioned- thats what I meant about obvious articles, with fairly obvious conclusions.

IMHO I also feel that there could be a lot more imagination used when constructing content for both magazines after a while they do become 'samey', with a real lack of evolution in terms of look /feel and content.

But again would say I enjoy both MBM and MBY but generally ignore anything where subjective views are put forward as fact!

Kevin
 
Greetings all.

I have been reading your comments with interest (and occasional amusement). I think JFM is nearest the mark with his observations on the commercial realities of publishing boating magazines...before I joined MBY I looked seriously at launching my own performance motorboat magazine and the costs are absolutely terrifying. I took the IPC shilling instead, and I'm glad I did because I still have a house and a car and a shirt on my back.

In deference to those who want more practical boating info, I am going to take up TCM's suggestion for a quarterly MBY supplement called Practical Mangusta Owner. In it we will show people how to make a basic transistor radio out of a £10,000 Furuno GPS/Plotter, publish knitting patterns for superyacht fenders, and run a step-by-step guide to servicing your 5000hp gas turbines. Or maybe not.

Actually, much of what has been discussed here is more about MBM's position in the market than MBY's place in the overall scheme of things. I'm sure Hugo will comment if he feels so inclined. Here at MBY we will continue to focus on cruising, whether that's in a 20 year old boat that cost £10,000 or in a brand new £600,000 boat...the places you go and the things you do aren't necessarily governed by how much your boat cost. Yes, we tend to test bigger and more expensive boats than MBM, but there's a lot more to both magazines than boat tests.

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