BSJ2
Well-Known Member
i notized thet ;-)
MBM CRUISING CLUB-WHAT A NIGHTMARE
- Thread starter penpal
- Start date
hlb
RIP
Ive been Triping this way since you were sailing boats round yer bath. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
clivew05
Well-Known Member
Evening all! (oh its actually 11:43am) Morning all!!
I remember reading the story in the MBM magazine when it came out - I like to keep up with the MBM cruises as I unfortunately cant make most of them being on the Crouch and being self employed not being able to take too much time off without pay - but never the less - even locally I check the weather - and never - never go out if there is the slightest problem with the boat - let alone do this with family on board! I also know the limit to which my boat will take (F8 currently) best things about that was that it caught us by surprise (hence I was out in it in the first place) second it proved that having a planned bolt hole on the passage plan worked (never go out without one) and thirdly, the passengers now dont mind the odd 5/6 for a little while so I am more confident that I can go places where on the journey it may kick up for a few miles ..... I think MBM do a good job trying to oragnise these cruises and no matter what other people say - the confidence in cruising in copany to a place that you have never beed especially if it is further than normal - does boost your confidence just knowing that there are other boats there who would be able to aid you in trouble and following an experienced skipper that knows the lie of the land (or sea in this case) shows you a good few pointers. It should always be the skipper that makes the final decision on whether or not to go on any planned journey and this should be done with their own passage plans, contingency plans etc always check your own charts, and travel solo, but in company - ie go as if you were on your own, but have the security of fellow cruisers around you in your class of boat .. never ever try to keep up! just go at your own pace and what feels good to you....
Always works for me ....
Clive /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I remember reading the story in the MBM magazine when it came out - I like to keep up with the MBM cruises as I unfortunately cant make most of them being on the Crouch and being self employed not being able to take too much time off without pay - but never the less - even locally I check the weather - and never - never go out if there is the slightest problem with the boat - let alone do this with family on board! I also know the limit to which my boat will take (F8 currently) best things about that was that it caught us by surprise (hence I was out in it in the first place) second it proved that having a planned bolt hole on the passage plan worked (never go out without one) and thirdly, the passengers now dont mind the odd 5/6 for a little while so I am more confident that I can go places where on the journey it may kick up for a few miles ..... I think MBM do a good job trying to oragnise these cruises and no matter what other people say - the confidence in cruising in copany to a place that you have never beed especially if it is further than normal - does boost your confidence just knowing that there are other boats there who would be able to aid you in trouble and following an experienced skipper that knows the lie of the land (or sea in this case) shows you a good few pointers. It should always be the skipper that makes the final decision on whether or not to go on any planned journey and this should be done with their own passage plans, contingency plans etc always check your own charts, and travel solo, but in company - ie go as if you were on your own, but have the security of fellow cruisers around you in your class of boat .. never ever try to keep up! just go at your own pace and what feels good to you....
Always works for me ....
Clive /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
DAKA
Well-Known Member
If you want to cruise long distance you need either
a) be retired or unemployed so you can pick calm days
b) buy a different boat with proven sea keeping qualities, if you need to remain on the same budget this may mean a smaller boat but one with a better Hull than a Freeman that was really designed for space.
Most have now retired to canals, rivers , estuaries or the Norfolk broads where they are incredibly popular.
MBM cruise are a great way to start and a fun way of getting to awkward places, but dont blame them on bad weather or your selection of Hull type , I am not saying your selection of hull was wrong, after all considerations of accommodation, speed etc you chose your boat and now have to enjoy the attributes but also suffer the consequences .......
a) be retired or unemployed so you can pick calm days
b) buy a different boat with proven sea keeping qualities, if you need to remain on the same budget this may mean a smaller boat but one with a better Hull than a Freeman that was really designed for space.
Most have now retired to canals, rivers , estuaries or the Norfolk broads where they are incredibly popular.
MBM cruise are a great way to start and a fun way of getting to awkward places, but dont blame them on bad weather or your selection of Hull type , I am not saying your selection of hull was wrong, after all considerations of accommodation, speed etc you chose your boat and now have to enjoy the attributes but also suffer the consequences .......
duncan
Well-Known Member
Major
I think you will find that all the crews took a bit of a battering on the Weymouth leg, the call was made that it was do-able and that the weather 'the other side' would make it all worth while etc On arrival at Weymouth many felt (and voiced) th eview they wouldn;t have done it hads they fully understood the implications etc etc BUT 4 days later agreed that they would do it again if the could be guaranteed the last 3 days at the other end (I am paraphrasing a memory of the report!).
As discussed here many times understanding and communicating the conditions that will be experienced is an important task in passage making with crew (esp family) - however without any experiences to call upon it's really difficult because the obvious ones are all relative calls ie remember what it was like 2 years ago when we were returning direct from St PP and the GG put out a strong wind warning for the area (SW6-7) just as we got half way to Poole........
Poole boats are generally lucky too as when we head either West or South it's not going to get worse than you experience about 5 miles off Anvil and you can make a call on marginal situations there (in full and complete discussion with the crew).
tcm, in a rare moment of clarity ( /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) once stated a view that the skipper who was able to make the call to stay, despite the inevitable implications to planning etc , was the professional - nil point for 'making it through a horrendus ordeal' etc
I think you will find that all the crews took a bit of a battering on the Weymouth leg, the call was made that it was do-able and that the weather 'the other side' would make it all worth while etc On arrival at Weymouth many felt (and voiced) th eview they wouldn;t have done it hads they fully understood the implications etc etc BUT 4 days later agreed that they would do it again if the could be guaranteed the last 3 days at the other end (I am paraphrasing a memory of the report!).
As discussed here many times understanding and communicating the conditions that will be experienced is an important task in passage making with crew (esp family) - however without any experiences to call upon it's really difficult because the obvious ones are all relative calls ie remember what it was like 2 years ago when we were returning direct from St PP and the GG put out a strong wind warning for the area (SW6-7) just as we got half way to Poole........
Poole boats are generally lucky too as when we head either West or South it's not going to get worse than you experience about 5 miles off Anvil and you can make a call on marginal situations there (in full and complete discussion with the crew).
tcm, in a rare moment of clarity ( /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) once stated a view that the skipper who was able to make the call to stay, despite the inevitable implications to planning etc , was the professional - nil point for 'making it through a horrendus ordeal' etc
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
So you are saying that the cruise leader made a poor decision, which supports penpals accusation.
I was not sure if his complaint was that the conditions were not good, but offered no real danger, unless your boat was of an old hull design with leaky chain lockers and windows.
The sea sickness was not MBM's fault as I have had disgorgers in almost flat calm.
I was not sure if his complaint was that the conditions were not good, but offered no real danger, unless your boat was of an old hull design with leaky chain lockers and windows.
The sea sickness was not MBM's fault as I have had disgorgers in almost flat calm.
miket
Well-Known Member
I think you may be underestimating the capabilities of the Freeman 32, which when it was built was described as having a "hard chine" hull design. Today this would be described as "Semi-displacement".
I owned an early open cockpit version in which I not only cruised the non-tidal Thames very comfortably, but also cruised the Essex and Suffolk coast, N France and 2 trips to Holland.
Agreed, I chose my weather and was perhaps fortunate that on a couple of occasions we had the pleasure of a small group from our Thames Motor boat club, most of whom had similar pain thresholds when it came to weather.
Personally, I view F4 for that boat to be sufficient, mainly because she had quite a low freeboard and, quite frankly, she was getting on a bit and I go boating for pleasure and not to be able to tell all in the club bar how "we fought monstrous waves whilst wrestling with the wheel ......"
To bring back some confidence try and find one other boat, with skipper of suitable experince, and do an achievable trip together.
Don't lose heart, but try and sort out those leaks. Get the windows out and seal them down and work out a better method of sealing the chain locker entry pipe.
Go for it!!
I owned an early open cockpit version in which I not only cruised the non-tidal Thames very comfortably, but also cruised the Essex and Suffolk coast, N France and 2 trips to Holland.
Agreed, I chose my weather and was perhaps fortunate that on a couple of occasions we had the pleasure of a small group from our Thames Motor boat club, most of whom had similar pain thresholds when it came to weather.
Personally, I view F4 for that boat to be sufficient, mainly because she had quite a low freeboard and, quite frankly, she was getting on a bit and I go boating for pleasure and not to be able to tell all in the club bar how "we fought monstrous waves whilst wrestling with the wheel ......"
To bring back some confidence try and find one other boat, with skipper of suitable experince, and do an achievable trip together.
Don't lose heart, but try and sort out those leaks. Get the windows out and seal them down and work out a better method of sealing the chain locker entry pipe.
Go for it!!
andyball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
a better Hull than a Freeman that was really designed for space.
[/ QUOTE ]
they really were ahead of their time eh? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I thought those flying inflatables were good.
a better Hull than a Freeman that was really designed for space.
[/ QUOTE ]
they really were ahead of their time eh? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I thought those flying inflatables were good.
duncan
Well-Known Member
No I am saying that the cruise leader probably made a difficult marginal decision but lacked the appropriate mechanism of explaining to crews exactly what they would face - they, as many others exerienced in those waters, could have sat int ehmarina before wven setting out and imagined exactly what they would face in the solent, at the needles, crossing Poole Bay, rounding Anvil, St Albans ledge, across to Weymouth............but communicating it is difficult. Already on this thread we have had reference to a number of wind strengths but without context or relative directions, tidal flows and land and sea bed geography they mean little in small boats terms.
Put it another way - many drive a distance to their boats weekends. Most take into account the weather on arrival and possible planned activities when considering the journey; you do it often and make the call; long slow journey but you can get sorted for the perfect weather Sat morning and a CX trip or leave later and have an easy stress free run down as the weather doesn't look great or shite weather, crash on the M3 stay at home. So now a guy from Iceland comes to stay and you try and explain your logic in a manner he can understand........ /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Put it another way - many drive a distance to their boats weekends. Most take into account the weather on arrival and possible planned activities when considering the journey; you do it often and make the call; long slow journey but you can get sorted for the perfect weather Sat morning and a CX trip or leave later and have an easy stress free run down as the weather doesn't look great or shite weather, crash on the M3 stay at home. So now a guy from Iceland comes to stay and you try and explain your logic in a manner he can understand........ /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
hlb
RIP
As I said earlier. The problem, seems to me, with an MBM type cruise. If your a novice, you are taking the lead, from the leader, who has no idea how novice you are. Now for instance, he might say its a F5, but does the novice know what a F5 feels like in his boat, or is his family aware. Then course, a F5 in the Solent, is a whole different ball game than a F5 at sea. It's hard to get any understanding, cos your ummm, a novice. Then you have the problem, of. This feels bloody rough, but boss bod says it's ok. I dont want to turn back and look a wimp.
But wheres the dividing line between novice and experienced?? It cant be dont in a class room and experience of one bit of sea, has no bearing on another.
So really, you need loads of experience, before you can judge how what boss says, applies to you.
Think I'd want to have cruised on my own, umpteen times to the destination, before I would accept advice from strangers, then be able to use plan B and just do it my own way.
No. By far the best way, is as we do on the forum. Meeting in Weymouth. Who's comming. Make yer own way from where ever.
Them that come, do so, them that dont. No bother.
But wheres the dividing line between novice and experienced?? It cant be dont in a class room and experience of one bit of sea, has no bearing on another.
So really, you need loads of experience, before you can judge how what boss says, applies to you.
Think I'd want to have cruised on my own, umpteen times to the destination, before I would accept advice from strangers, then be able to use plan B and just do it my own way.
No. By far the best way, is as we do on the forum. Meeting in Weymouth. Who's comming. Make yer own way from where ever.
Them that come, do so, them that dont. No bother.
duncan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Meeting in Weymouth. Who's comming.
[/ QUOTE ]
when?
Meeting in Weymouth. Who's comming.
[/ QUOTE ]
when?
penpal
Well-Known Member
I am not a novice but have never travelled further than Pool or Chichester, saying that the seas were rough. I have not problem in force 5, sometimes a 6, but this was a sea after a force 7 and although the wind had let up the seas had not.
penpal
Well-Known Member
Thanks
amf
Well-Known Member
We had a Sealine S23 a few years back and in our first season booked a CI cruise with MBM to gain confidence etc. Both myself and SWMBO were relatively new to proper cruising at the time having mainly kept within the confines of the Solent.
We knew we were going to be one of the smallest boats and it turned out there were two other boats our size but all sizes up to 50+ feet and of all speeds.
I have to say that the MBM crew (Tom, Neale, Kim, Hugo) went out of their way to predict and keep us informed of the likely passage conditions. They sent Piers out in his Flemming at ungodly hours in the morning to see what conditions were like and report back. On more than one occasion they delayed planned passages based on their reports.
Weather during the trip was not perfect but Neale in Time Flies accompanied the smaller boats which gave us confidence.
Time was running out at the end of the cruise and we were stuck in Guernsey because of weather conditions. A decision was made to leave Guernsey with direct passage to the Solent. We were all briefed that initial conditions (by Beaucette) would be marginal and that the smaller boats should stay in the wake of larger boats to break up the swell. We did get soaked and at one time radioed a rather shaky message to the fleet to see if any big boats could help us with the swell - one duly obliged and in fact we spent the whole passage behind a 50 footer.
All in all I think as has been previously mentioned MBM are in between a rock and a hard place trying to keep everyone happy, I guess we would have been frustrated if we were on a larger boat and held back by smaller boats in the fleet.
Whilst the conditions challenged us at times the organisation, the friends we made and the knowledge that you were only a radio call away from reassurance/help meant that we never felt in danger.
The whole trip gave us the confidence to continue cruising by ourselves and discover our limitations. I would echo others comments and don't let this one incident put you off.
- Andrew
We knew we were going to be one of the smallest boats and it turned out there were two other boats our size but all sizes up to 50+ feet and of all speeds.
I have to say that the MBM crew (Tom, Neale, Kim, Hugo) went out of their way to predict and keep us informed of the likely passage conditions. They sent Piers out in his Flemming at ungodly hours in the morning to see what conditions were like and report back. On more than one occasion they delayed planned passages based on their reports.
Weather during the trip was not perfect but Neale in Time Flies accompanied the smaller boats which gave us confidence.
Time was running out at the end of the cruise and we were stuck in Guernsey because of weather conditions. A decision was made to leave Guernsey with direct passage to the Solent. We were all briefed that initial conditions (by Beaucette) would be marginal and that the smaller boats should stay in the wake of larger boats to break up the swell. We did get soaked and at one time radioed a rather shaky message to the fleet to see if any big boats could help us with the swell - one duly obliged and in fact we spent the whole passage behind a 50 footer.
All in all I think as has been previously mentioned MBM are in between a rock and a hard place trying to keep everyone happy, I guess we would have been frustrated if we were on a larger boat and held back by smaller boats in the fleet.
Whilst the conditions challenged us at times the organisation, the friends we made and the knowledge that you were only a radio call away from reassurance/help meant that we never felt in danger.
The whole trip gave us the confidence to continue cruising by ourselves and discover our limitations. I would echo others comments and don't let this one incident put you off.
- Andrew
stevieee
Well-Known Member
I have to ask the OP, why didn't you turn back when the conditions weren't favourable?
amf
Well-Known Member
Looking back, we didn't really consider turning back as an option. Maybe (as HLB said) we didn't want to look like wimps. However, we certainly wouldn't have wanted to do the journey on our own later. Having other boats around us helped, we never felt in danger and we had been warned about the conditions and the fact that they would get better in the Channel (which they did).
Having said that, if we met the same conditions today, on our own, in the same boat, we would turn back.
In our current boat however, we would just throttle back to 25 knots and ride it out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Having said that, if we met the same conditions today, on our own, in the same boat, we would turn back.
In our current boat however, we would just throttle back to 25 knots and ride it out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
stevieee
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the very honest answer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
hlb
RIP
No, I think what you were seeing, was maybe a real f4, maybe f5, as oppossed to a Solent F5 where it's very protected. I would not want to be on a Freeman in a F5, good boats in there day, and still make sought after river boats. To give you an idea. I used to have a Princess 33, 1979 vintage. We traveled the whole of the Irish sea in it, maybe 20 times. Wales, Ireland, Scotland and back. Had some hairy does.
But put that against my more modern Princess 35, or anything newer, it's like chalk and cheese.
This is what I was saying about working out who's a novice and who's experienced, and where. A F5 at the Needles is a whole different ball game than in the Solent.
But tell me. Why did you not take the Northern or inner route, it's not much further and a whole lot more protected if the weathers bad?
But put that against my more modern Princess 35, or anything newer, it's like chalk and cheese.
This is what I was saying about working out who's a novice and who's experienced, and where. A F5 at the Needles is a whole different ball game than in the Solent.
But tell me. Why did you not take the Northern or inner route, it's not much further and a whole lot more protected if the weathers bad?
Sneds
Well-Known Member
As an aside, some of the posts on here renew my faith in human nature.
"Come and join us" etc.
I wish there were a group of people based in Bristol that would informally "cruise in company."
We had a nasty experience off Watchet last year which battered the confidence a bit, but we are slowly getting back there. (engine failure, F7, ebbing tide!)
If there are any like minded folk around Bristol/Portishead please get in touch. Nothing better than talking boats and drinking beer!
PS to the guy with the Freeman; lovely boats - don't give up!
"Come and join us" etc.
I wish there were a group of people based in Bristol that would informally "cruise in company."
We had a nasty experience off Watchet last year which battered the confidence a bit, but we are slowly getting back there. (engine failure, F7, ebbing tide!)
If there are any like minded folk around Bristol/Portishead please get in touch. Nothing better than talking boats and drinking beer!
PS to the guy with the Freeman; lovely boats - don't give up!
ArthurWood
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hlb
Do yu realizze tat yu are beginnnning to tipe the Gludy waay? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
He wuz tieping like that before you wuz born /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Hlb
Do yu realizze tat yu are beginnnning to tipe the Gludy waay? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
He wuz tieping like that before you wuz born /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
