MBM Buyers Guide, Opinions Please!

Re: Look who has been on a diet!

Good point, well made.

I do like the mag, but without these list December would have been v v thin.

You could give the same information, without pics in a 1/4 of the space, as others have suggested like the car mags, stating what each boat has and hasn't got.


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Re: Look who has been on a diet!

The pictures are the best bit about it. Everyone knows what cars look like, there aren't that many models and you see most of them everyday. Boats are a bit more unique, and it's great to be able to grab it and have a look when unfamiliar make or model turns up.

<hr width=100% size=1> I asked an economist for her phone number....and she gave me an estimate
 
Re: Extra 20 pages

Hi Hugo,

Come off it Hugo, who is kidding who here? The mag has been about 160 pages long for years now and its still that length but now we get 20 pages reprinted with the same old buyers guide in it month after month. Sorry but if it continues I will not renew my subscription!

Barry


<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!
 
Re: Extra 20 pages

No doubt Hugo can speak for himself but I'm not sure this is an entirely fair comparison. The key factor is to compare the number of pages of editorial, month on month. The main thing that will increase/decrease issue size is the number of pages of advertising carried so that, for example, I'd expect September (So'ton Boat Show) and January (LIBS) editions to have more pages than December (lean, dead period before Xmas with no-one buying/selling any boats). The number of editorial pages will, to an extent, fluctuate with the amount of advertising carried but I'd guess perhaps by 2-4 pages, not 20.

Not trying to be an apologist for IPC (and I don't work for them, btw) but I think it's more complex than you suggest.



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Re: Extra 20 pages

So how come the example in the picture I posted (orig thread) compares Aug 2001 with Dec 2003?

Aug when everyones on holiday.

Nah...I still dont buy it.

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Re: Look who has been on a diet!

Or even
mbm.jpg


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Barry

Lets compare like for like.

Dec 03 164 pages
Dec 02 136 pages
Dec 01 144 pages
Dec 00 148 pages

That means that this issue is on average 21.333333333333 pages bigger than the previous 3 December issues.
Now how many pages is the buyers guide?????

Neale

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Apollo

The issues you were looking at:

Aug 01 148 pages and Dec 03 164 pages

The reason the Dec 03 issue looks thinner is not due to number of pages as can be seen. It is due to us using a new paper which is 75gsm instead of 80gsm. The reason for this is down to quality. The newer paper is whiter which allows better reproduction of images. It also holds the ink better. And before you say "another cost cutting excersice" this thinner paper is more expensive.

Neale

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Re: Sorry Neale, Look at these figures!

Hi Neale,

Just grabbed a few back issues from the loft,

172 pages July 2000
192 pages September 2000
196 pages January 2001
180 pages January 2002
160 Pages May 2002

And Thats without 20 or more reprinted buyers guide pages!

Come on Neale the magazine is shrinking! its not giving value for money!
I am in the Market Research business, why don't you employ me to hold some focus groups for you to find out just what your readership really thinks?

Regards Barry





<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!
 
Barry

As I said, you have to compare like for like. Different issues are bigger and smaller for a number of reasons eg Jan issue has London Preview, Sep issue has Southampton preview.

Jan 03 will have 204 pages compared to 180 in 02.


Apollo

If you think the paper size issue is nonsense. Please explain how 164 pages can be thinner than 148 pages!!!!

As an aside: May 1987 First Issue. 136 pages

Neale

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Re:post script

Neale,

You have got me going now!!

Been in the loft again! The oldest MBM I can lay my hands on is June 1997.

June 1997 168 pages. with 27 pages of adverts

July 2003 (can't find June at the moment!) 152 pages with 29 pages adverts.

So even before the buyers guide it was adverts up articles down!

Barry



<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!
 
Re: Sorry Neale, Look at these figures!

I still maintain that the more appropriate comparison is between the number of pages of editorial in each issue and not the overall number of pages. I'll bet that the main cause of variation between issues is down to the number of pages of advertising sold. So, lots of ad space sold may make a thicker edition, but does it really give us much more in terms of value (unless you're boat hunting)?

The reason we buy the magazine is, primarily, to read the editorial content. If that's been systematically reduced (and Sod's Law dictates that you will now go away, count up the editorial pages and prove to me that it has!) then there is cause to moan. If the Magazine is thinner because they're selling less ad. space, then there's less cause for us to moan (tho' IPC's shareholders aren't going to agree with me on that one..........).

75 vs 80 gsm paper will, in spite of the scepticism expressed hereabouts, make for a slimmer magazine.



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Sod the size...

and the weight and any other objective measures of input for that matter.

the only thing that matters to me, and the Editors I guess, is what we the potential and actual readers think of the value that we get from our chosen ( or otherwise) magazines. Not sure how long I have been a subscriber to MBY and MBM .. but must be 15 years.

My view is that the quality and value of both have improved immeasurably over that time, and particularly during the last 12 months. Given the broad range of interest that they both have to cater for, it is not surprising that some strong views are held but please , lay off the number of pages/ weight ... totally immaterial to me.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
 
Re: Sorry Neale, Look at these figures!

Surely its the QUALITY of the editorial that matters not the VOLUME - I would rather read 10 good pages than 20 rubbish. IMHO of course

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian - <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>More Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
Re: Sorry Neale, Look at these figures!

<<and Sod's Law dictates that you will now go away, count up the editorial pages and prove to me that it has!>>

Ooer; hoist on my own petard whilst I was in the throes of composition. But I suspect that averaging figures over the year would support my contention. I also suspect that the June edition may attract more advertising than July, by which time everyone's on their boat and not buying magazines, chandlery, boats etc.

But that's enough tedium from me on this subject. Not sure why I'm supporting an evil, grasping etc. media group anyway. 'Cept I think they're getting an undeserved bad press on this particular subject. Not keen on their attitude to readers' footpaths, however, which seems to me to be completely unacceptable, uncaring and otherwise dastardly; boo! hiss!

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I hate to butt in when you're all having a pop at my competitor, but I have to say a few things in defense of Hugo and MBM (I didn't see Hugo's motorbike in the bike park this morning, so I'm assuming he's not in today).

Surely it's the number of editorial pages that matter, and the number of editorial pages you get is dictated by the number of ads sold, issue by issue. The Buyers Guide is additional pages, so without it the December issue would have been 140 pages, and the total number of editorial pages (excluding the Guide) would remain the same.

For boating magazines the December issues are traditionally a lean time, falling between the Southampton and London Boat Shows, and going on sale at a time when there is little sales activity in the marine business. September issues are also smaller because they come out in August (when people are out on their boats) and the advertisers feel they're not reaching as many readers as they would in a Spring issue or a Boat Show Preview/Review issue.

Comparing issue sizes with three years ago isn't totally relevant, either. The health of the marine industry dictates how many companies advertise, and how often, and dictates how much can be charged for an ad. And the health of the marine industry changes rapidly and often. In boom times the ads flood in, the editorial pagination goes up, and everyone's happy. In recession the ads dry up, the issue sizes shrink, and everyone gets nervous.

The cost to the magazine of producing a Buyers Guide is pretty small, so if MBM (or MBY) got rid of their Buyers Guide you might only get an additional page or two of editorial content. That's a decision the editors and publishers have to make, and one which some of you aren't happy with. I don't know about MBM, but much of the cost of the MBY Buyers Guide is met by our promotions budget, so without the Guide you'd get no extra editorial pages, but you might get a cover-mounted floating key-ring or a car sticker saying "Dripping Stern-Glands, Please Pass". I think most of you would prefer a useful Buyers Guide.

Hugo may have other things to add (like telling me to bog-off and mind my own business), but from an MBY perspective, the Buyers Guide fulfills a useful function, costs you (the reader) nothing, and adds to the magazine's "thud-factor". Over the course of a year the number of editorial pages (in MBY) ranges from 85 up to 106, and averages out at around 93 per issue. That's less than 4p per page. If you think that's reasonable value, great. If you don't, let us know and we'll try and make sure you're getting your money's worth. But don't blame it on the Buyers Guide...it doesn't come into the pagination/VFM equation.

Does any of that make sense?

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Hi Tom,

Yes of course what you say makes a lot of sense, I also subsribe to MBY and I find it a superb mag!

I do appreciate all the various things that have to be considered in this sort of discussion, however at the end of the day the punter has to be considered! and I know that I usually pour all over MBY taking a number of days to digest it. On the other hand my MBM bores me within an hour! Now that never used to happen! I would pick it up and always find something I had not read, but now that just is not happening! And the Guide just annoys me as I see it as a waste of space. It has to be said that MBM is shrinking when compared to years gone by! I for one would rather pay a higher price for it and get back that sparkle that kept me reading it for days on end!

Regards Barry




<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!
 
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