Maximum size of a motor yacht without professional crew

[Bajansailor]

Here is an interesting thread going on in the USA on the Boat Design Forum - the OP is looking for ideas and input re a large motor yacht that he either wants to build from new, or convert from an existing cargo vessel such as a supply ship.
Dream project: Converting a support vessel <300 GT into a long-range liveaboard expedition yacht

I thought that the 24 metre Rule regarding professional crew with qualifications was non-negotiable, but he is claiming that he can build a bigger yacht than this, and operate it legally with just his wife and dog as crew.

What are your thoughts please?

 

[Boathook]

I saw something about the 24 metre rule and the boats are bigger. The ones I saw mentioned had a removable bow and stern (above the waterline) so these bits weren't included in the maximum length. There was a maximum length that these bits could go to. A weird rule I thought.

 

[billskip]

I saw something about the 24 metre rule and the boats are bigger. The ones I saw mentioned had a removable bow and stern (above the waterline) so these bits weren't included in the maximum length. There was a maximum length that these bits could go to. A weird rule I thought.

The new regulations prevent the removable bits.

 

[billskip]

Here is an interesting thread going on in the USA on the Boat Design Forum - the OP is looking for ideas and input re a large motor yacht that he either wants to build from new, or convert from an existing cargo vessel such as a supply ship.
Dream project: Converting a support vessel <300 GT into a long-range liveaboard expedition yacht

I thought that the 24 metre Rule regarding professional crew with qualifications was non-negotiable, but he is claiming that he can build a bigger yacht than this, and operate it legally with just his wife and dog as crew.

What are your thoughts please?

I've read a few of the posts, not all,but including a couple of yours and his replies.
All is can comment is that I believe his cruising area will be restricted to the areas that allow his crewing situation, also what he claims to be freedom areas front 24mtr restrictions doesn't necessarily mean that insurance company will cover.

 

[jakew009]

That whole thread is written by ChatGPT and both Josef and Varn are the same person (writing the posts via AI).

The world is full of nutters, internet forums even more so.

 

[jfm]

The new regulations prevent the removable bits.

No they don't. They try to, but MCA are acting ultra vires in my view. The relevant doc is MGN645 M, from 2022. Aside from it being ultra vires the MCA's power imho, it is terribly written - its author doesn't have a good enough command of the EN language to be writing things like this.

Back to the OP, I think the guy referred to is building in the USA where the 24m rules are different and much lighter than in Europe - as per post #4

 

[ari]

The new regulations prevent the removable bits.

Nobody seems to have told Princess (X95), Sunseeker (100 Yacht) and all the other builders who are still building boats to RCD spec on this basis.

 

[billskip]

No they don't. They try to, but MCA are acting ultra vires in my view. The relevant doc is MGN645 M, from 2022. Aside from it being ultra vires the MCA's power imho, it is terribly written - its author doesn't have a good enough command of the EN language to be writing things like this.

Back to the OP, I think the guy referred to is building in the USA where the 24m rules are different and much lighter than in Europe - as per post #4

Mmmm...I read this quote from MGN645 M, to suggested that they are not acceptable....quote..

Certifying Authorities and Recognised Organisations authorised by the MCA will consider L to be the length with the fairing piece in place and will refuse to certify as SCVs any vessels using cut-outs to reduce L to below 24 metres

Yes jfm, I agree

 

[Daydream believer]

What happens with the Thames Barge at 27 metres with a man boy & of course the dog?
How about a non professional volunteer skipper with a charity barge?

 

[billskip]

Nobody seems to have told Princess (X95), Sunseeker (100 Yacht) and all the other builders who are still building boats to RCD spec on this basis.

Well i think we are talking about two slightly different things...one being the deliberate design and building of "removable parts" and specific designs that are designed and built with the 24mtr rule such as the boats you mentioned and the SL 96's without removable parts.

 

[Bajansailor]

No they don't. They try to, but MCA are acting ultra vires in my view. The relevant doc is MGN645 M, from 2022. Aside from it being ultra vires the MCA's power imho, it is terribly written - its author doesn't have a good enough command of the EN language to be writing things like this.

Back to the OP, I think the guy referred to is building in the USA where the 24m rules are different and much lighter than in Europe - as per post #4

Thank you JFM for the reference to MGN645M - that is good info, and I have downloaded and saved a copy for future reference.

Re the OP in the thread on the Boat Design Forum, he has noted that he is not planning on flagging his new vessel in the USA - rather, he is currently considering the Cook Islands and the Cayman Islands.
I think that the Cayman Islands regulations are similar to those in the UK Registry, but maybe the Cook Islands allow for a bit more leeway?

Josef (the OP in the BDF thread) lives in Switzerland, and he seems to think that so long as he keeps the gross tonnage of his vessel under 300 GRT he will be ok, regardless of how long it is, but I wonder if the Cayman Islands Registry folk will agree with this?
He notes that he is looking for a vessel between 28 - 40 metres in length, and he seems to be suggesting that the 24 metre Rule re Loadline length does not apply to him if he is a 'private' (ie non commercial) vessel.

Regarding the Rules in the USA, would they allow the Owner of one of the 105' Hatteras motor yachts to skipper it himself, in similar fashion to how JFM is the Master of his 96' San Lorenzo (which seems to be on the limit of the 24 metre Rule) ?
Here is a link to the 105' Hatteras - it notes that the vessel's length is 31.7 metres, and her gross tonnage is 184 - much less than Josef's 300 GRT rule.
https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/the-superyacht-directory/hatteras-105--101721

 

[billskip]

Bajansailor.
Remember the MCA is not an international body, it's the IMO legislation that will possibly be more recognised outside the UK.

 

[billskip]

Just a quick copy&paste from Google..

Key IMO Regulations for 24m+ Yachts:
Safety Standards:
Vessels over 24 meters in length, especially those used for commercial purposes, must adhere to stringent safety standards related to life-saving equipment, fire safety, and structural integrity.
Manning Requirements:
While some manning exemptions exist for private yachts under 3000 GT, those over this size and those used for commercial voyages typically require compliance with the Merchant Shipping (Safe Manning, Hours of Work and Watchkeeping) Regulations.