masts up on the hard

[Samphire]

I must be in the minority.I abhor the modern practice of leaving masts up over the winter when out of the water.It is a recent thing which started with the introduction of travelhoists to save the boatyards work,did prices drop when they saved the work of dropping masts.Not lightly.
Next time there is a gale spend some time on your boat and feel the vibrations and strain.At least on the water or when sailing a boat heels to release the pressures.In our area I know of boats that havent had masts dropped in 5 or 6 years.
Samphire.

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[Robin]

We had our mast down last year to renew all the rigging etc, but at over 50ft it took a lot of getting down even with a big crane and 2 hours plus to put it back up with the same big crane. It took 6 people to move it when down. Whilst it was down and re-rigged ready for raising, the nice new bottle screws etc were dragging on the ground in the yard and had to be washed off and cleaned properly. At the same time I had to tape timber battens to the mast top to stop damage to the tricolour and the expensive roller reefing gear (over 50ft of luff spar) was also very vulnerable. The yard bill for taking it down and replacing it came to over £200, even sharing the crane hire with another boat.

When we had smaller boats (up to 26') and took the masts down with an 'A' frame' and the mainsheet tackle it was different but even then I damaged the bottlescrews on more than on occasion when they twisted whilst putting it back up. Our next boat was 30' with a keel stepped mast, so became a crane job.

On balance I think I prefer to leave it up, mind you unless we are doing a major refit ashore we are only out for 4 weeks to do the 'out of water jobs', the rest of the fitting out is done on our berth.



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[Guest]

What are the relative loadings of a mast with no sail vs. a mast carrying sail in a F4 or greater? I'd offer to work it out but I'm too tired right now - I can recall from this point being discussed a couple of years ago though that the bare mast is in no danger.

Just because the boat vibrates when ashore doesn't mean there's any undue loading. When a boat heels when sailing is hardly "relieving" the load - just test the tension on the windward shrouds!

However, the biggest danger to a mast comes when raising or lowering. While uprigtht, the loading is just how it should be, but when roted to the horizontal the forces are huge. A bend in the mast is now healthy. Add to those dangers, there's the potential for damage to a myriad of fittings and the risk of theft.

Unstepping a wooden mast was a sensible step. Get it out of the weather, strip and add ten coats of varnish, replace any parts which show damage etc. I'm sorry, but this is unecessary with modern masts and even many traditional firms don't see the point in unstepping the mast except for a rigging change.

<hr width=100% size=1>Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[david_e]

One of the marina staff pointed out the dangers of the vibrating rig to me faily recently (after the storms of November). Many boats are supported by a post chocked under the bow; the vibrations in the rig can cause oscilations which in turn lead to the boat lifting slightly, chock comes loose, boat falls over, he has seen it a few times.

With regard to the steel rigging, it is working under load and eventually wears out. If it is loaded for a lot less time then it will in theory last longer, or so the local dealer says, and he doesn't have a yard. Thing is, insurance companies and surveyors take the date new as a key marker, so it could be argued that it doesn't really matter to anyone other than the owner.

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[vyv_cox]

Exactly so. Far more damage is done to masts unstepping, during storage and re-stepping than occurs if left standing. Two years ago mine was removed for the first time in five years. The B&G wind transducer was broken and cost an arm and a leg to replace. Each time the mast has been stored I suffered a broken VHF aerial, water in tricolour and other damage. If a sensible cradle is used instead of the ridiculously narrow things offered by some yards, or worse individual shores with no ties, there is absolutely no risk in leaving the mast up.

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[Robin]

It can happen that the additional chocks vibrate lose, but they are supposed to be supplementary to the cradle. Your marina man and his buddies should be checking for loose supports/wedges etc regularly, thats part of what we are paying the yard for. However a boat should not fall over because a supplementary support falls out, that suggests that the cradle (probably rented to the owner at high cost) was not up to the job.

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[david_e]

I was thinking it is when the boats have wooden posts supporting them allround.

Agree, would be nice to think that they are full alert at all times but self protection is the the best policy in the first instance.

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[colvic]

Having had to stay one night on board when on the hard in France, I know just what you mean about the vibration etc..

Just couldn't face doing it again, ever, and that's only a 30ft. mast, but with a Colvic Watson you have a long keel, so it's individual props and no cradle.

After epoxy coatings and new antifouls she won't be out again until end of next year, hopefully!

Phil

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[qsiv]

I have to agree - the task of unstepping safely - ensuring the rods dont get tweaked etc would fill me with fear.

We arent flush with shoreside facilities where I'm based and finding somewhere that could cope with a luff spar of close to 30 metres would be damn nigh impossible.

No, on balance I'd sooner leave the stick in. In fact I go further, and prefer to leave the whole boat in as I worry less when she's in her element. I rig a cats cradle of lines which hold her clear of the pontoon so theres as little wear and tear, and visit periodically to check. All in all I think it's a better option, with no real downside.

In two weeks time we come out for the annual scrub, antifoul and general fettle below waterline, then it's back in. Even so, lifting her out means dropping the MF aerial at the stern, dropping the backstays, as the travelhoist seems to have stinkies in mind!

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[c_roff]

I thought the only real disadvantage with leaving the mast up was the increased risk of the yacht blowing over on the hard. The decision whether to unstep or not surely is primarily driven by the location of the yard and its exposure to wind. I have a 35ft GRP long keel Holman & Pye yacht in a cradle, with extra props and the main mast left up. I've been working on the boat all winter and have never experienced unpleasant vibrations. One evenining I did however hear a knocking noise and on investigating discovered a member of the marina staff checking the chocks were tight! The service at Royal Quays Marina in North Shields (Tyneside) is excellent.

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[Martin_Billings]

Last time my mast was unstepped the riggers cut all electrics off at deck level. Not a major problem but a happy hour or so was spent by self making new waterproof connections.

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[Gunfleet]

In Brittany you often see boats stored 'mast up' in exposed locations with guys from the mast head to pegs in the ground on each side.

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[Guest]

Fair point, but then a cradle removes the worry. What I see in so many yards makes me wonder why the whole lot don't always fall over like dominos.

Persoanlly, and I don't claim any expertise other than an engineering degree, I don't consider vibration a threat to the mast - although I accept your point about the potential danger to an inadequatley supported boat. If we make that distinction then my only answer is that each owner should check their insurance policy small print before storage ashore.

I just had my boat hauled for a month. During this brief stay out of the water the primary work was to have a new depth sounder fitted. Taking advantage of the time, I also antifouled her (hardley essential but...). To have paid all the extra for dropping the mast, and retuning the rigging would have added 30% to the bill.

Ps. my last boat was 39', had a double spreader rig, 65' aluminium mast, and in 20 years her mast was down just once. Just to really concern you, she was only hauled once every three years. Lovely condition all over.

<hr width=100% size=1>Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[Samphire]

Have to agree with much of what has been said,however almost everyone is worried about damage occuring when lowering/storing/raising the spar.
I kept the boat for many years at a small yard where every boat had mast dropped every year as they used a crane and there were access problems with wires,however I never heard of any damage.Spars were stored on the pushpit/pulpit and or with timber struts.However most modern boatyards are not sufficiently skilled to do it without damage.
Re the vibrations I was worried less about damage to boat as we do use a cradle with additional wooden props,than damage to the rig.In addition we are a heavy built 10t boat,but next door is an x36 and a Legend 38 both of vhich can be seen
literally moving on a bad day and I am more worried of them falling on us than the other way around! The Legend Lungstrom rig with all the spreaders and in mast furling section is like a wing mast.
Samphire

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[chriscallender]

Practice makes perfect as they say. A boatyard that raises/lowers 100 masts a year is going to be less likely to do any damage than one that raises only a handful.

My boat sat on the trailer thats used to haul boats out before they are craned onto cradles during the storm (F10?) at the end of October last year and the mast hadn't yet been unstepped - went down to check on things and the shaking and shuddering was awesome. Only leaning on a couple of posts on one side the way it had dried out before being pulled out the water by the tractor, now that did have me worried, not that there was much I could do. And in the end it was OK.

Chris

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[TheBoatman]

We un-step our mast every 3 years, mainly to inspect all the fittings/wiring and regrease the halyard rollers etc. I have found that most copper wiring becomes corroded at the ends and needs to be cut back to expose good wire. On the last test I did we were losinging 2v due to bad wires.

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[vyv_cox]

The yard at Middelharnis uses a technique that I have never seen elsewhere, but makes a great deal of sense. After removing masthead transducers from a rigging cradle on the crane, a very sensible way to do it, they lift the mast on the cleated off spinnaker halyard. This avoids all the hassle of trying to get a strop around the spreaders, and with a double-spreader rig avoids any problems of top-heaviness and over-balancing. The mast is absolutely upright, again making unstepping and stepping a good deal easier.

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[charles_reed]

If the point you're making is the mast and rigging being at risk, i would have to disagree with you - the likelihood of damage during the stepping/unstepping operation is infinitely greater than leaving the mast up.

However the worst of all worlds ia to do what some advocate, slackening off the rigging, whilst leaving the mast up - the shock loadings quite quicly lead to damage.

Alternatively, if you're arguing that it's antisocial to store your boat on the hard with the mast up, lest it fall over on its neighbour, you may have the start of a valid argument. Surely, however, your disapproval should be directed at inadequate cradles and ineffective use of dunnage.
From memory, when the great gales of 1987? occured there was no significant difference in yachts which fell over between those masted or with masts stepped.

That masts do need to come down from time to time for inspection and renovation I would accept - shoehorning my keel-stepped 15.5m mast into and out of the boat is not something I would willingly do more frequently than every 5th year.

During a recent tramontane, where I have my boat, a 8.5m runabout had its wheelhouse blown right off - but max windspeeds that night were up about 60 knots, not one of the mast-in boats moved.

Your point about crane vs travelift - whilst the costs may be very similar the additional work involved if using a crane will make the crane far more expensive than the travelift if a like-for-like comparison is made.

Whilst I understand from where you're coming I cannot see haow you can prove your point.

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