Masthead all-round red over green ??????????????

Bav34

Bav34

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Just reading the latest RYA mag. Readers responses to the OUZO tragedy. One readers suggestion is ''to remove tri-lights altogether and use the all-round red over green as allowed by the COLREGS.''

What????

Must have some merit as the RYA have published it but how does it work?

Admittedly, I am now incapable of being in charge of my high powered yacht as I had a couple of glasses of wine with my dinner /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif but even in my befuddled state all that I can work out is that:

I see a boat to starboard. Presumably sailing. I see red over green. How do I know if he is coming straight at me or passing down my side?

Yes, I understand that given time to monitor closing angles etc I can see if we are passing side to side but currently if I see red AND green ... he's coming straight for me! I know to panic!

What am I missing? And don't be rude!!! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I havent looked at the regs, but I think the red over green are in addition to normal sailing steaming lights. I also think they are not "all round", rather they go from 112.5 to port to 112.5 to starboard.

I think they might be mandatory for yachts over a certain length, (20m?).

Alternatively, the above might be bollox, and I might wish I'd read the regs first.

Whatever they are, I'm not sure what improvement they could make over a tricolour, which is a light at the top of the mast anyway.
 
Hi Richard. not being picky (honest) but there isn't a ''sailing steaming light''.

He is suggesting that sailing vessels remove tri-lights, use the red and green but when motoring obviously the steaming white will go on. Reason?? Two lights at the top give greater viz.

Well yes, he's right but that still gives me the problem of knowing whether or not he is going to ram me. Or is it the wine that has confused me? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Er - thought I knew this and just checked my RYA Yachtmaster traing manual and it doesn't say!!! It talks about masthead tricolours or bicolour on the front and stern light (for sailing vessels under 20m) but makes no mention of the red over green. However it must be in addition surely ??? Hven't got a full copy of the colregs to hand but I bet someone has.
 
I don't think the collision regs, which generally seem to work ok, should be altered to suit the fact that the ferry's watch officer and lookout were not doing their job properly. There's a saying in the legal profession "Hard cases make bad law", i.e. rushing out a new law in response to a single tragedy is not a good idea.

Around 3,000 people a year die on British roads but not much is done about it, yet a small number of deaths on yachts generates far more concern.
 
Gorit:

A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;
(ii) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.

(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.

Ie must still have a port starboard and stern light and the red over green in addition but you can't have a triclour with them.

Right panic over I'm off down the pub.
 
Red above green, is IN ADDITION to red, green and stern lights. So you can replace the top of mast tricolour with all round red and green, but you must still have the standard red/green sidelights and stern light
 
The red over green (all round) are in addition to the sidelights/sternlights. Rule 25.

The red/green cannot be combined with a tricolour.
 
Gotcha!!

Badly written letter.

I hardly dare mention that one of the other proposals published was to fit a mast head strobe!!!

Oh, I just did /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Close, but no cigar then!

Given the Ouzo, I think anything which attracts attention, (like a strobe), wouldnt be a bad thing. If it had prevented the Ouzo being sunk, and the loss of 3 lives, who could argue against it, rules, or no rules. The OOW on Ouzo might have said "I hate those bloody strobe things!", but at least he would have seen it, (or his lookouts would).

I see a lot of yachts at anchor with a strobe type flashing light. I guess it could be confused with a cardinal, so perhaps something needs to be done to accommodate it

"any vessel under 20m may, if it wishes, show a lilac strobe, in order to facilitate being seen by other vessels"

not sure what colour wouldnt conflict with anything else, but something could be found I'm sure.

The fact is, if boats are going to use strobes arbitrarily, then there is no way of stopping them, so it would make sense to alter the rules to ensure consistency and avoid confusion.
 
When I sailed on traditional vessels, we always had red over green all-around lights in the masthead when sailing. It makes the fact that you are a sailing vessel much clearer.... and gives you the appearence of a quite large one, as it is usually only shown by bigger vessels, but with LED-lights it would be perfectly feasible for yachts.
 
i would have to confess that when sailing in certain conditions i've put the steaming lights on as well as the tri working on the theory more lights more visible,
(you can always spot a ferry/cruise ship)
am i right in thinking that the strobe is legal/part of the regs in the USA
 
[ QUOTE ]
am i right in thinking that the strobe is legal/part of the regs in the USA

[/ QUOTE ] International regs only allow a yellow fast flash (strobe) for an air cushion vehicle (assumed reason, it doesn't go where it's pointing) and also for fishing boats working in proximity to each other engaged in pairs trawling (lets not get between them, guys).

All other uses are specifically excluded. Where that leaves the IOW fast ferries I'm not sure. They're going so fast that the onus has to be on them to avoid all other traffic . . . .

Within inland waters, other rules may apply . . . that covers a lot of US sailing.
 
[ QUOTE ]
the strobe is very visible tho

[/ QUOTE ]

...As it is on aircraft, large and small, all around the world. Has been since it was technically possible. 'See and be seen...'

I fail to understand the Luddite attitude of those who are supposed to review and promulgate the ColRegs. Small vessels have always been at risk of being run down by larger, but recently we have had the technical means to improve our visibility considerably...... e.g. strobe lights ( optional, manually switched ), radar target enhancers.... ).

What does the IMO do about these advances? Nothing. Or SFA, if you prefer...

Edit: Actually, it actively tries to prevent us making use of such safety improvements.....

I would suggest holding the UK representative to that august and complacent London-based body to account. I would like to know what he ( she? ) does for his money.....


/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Colregs is not a London based person, but many people in an international organisation. I'd welcome anything that helps small craft to be seen, but only as part of internationally recognised, so everyone is working to the same standards, and everyone that see's the lights can understand what they are seeing. White strobes won't be understood in current maritime colregs, so people will struggle to understand what they are seeing, and it's bad enough trying to understand what you see at night as it is, without people introducing their own interpretations.
 
Re: Masthead all-round red over green ??????????????

erem .. how many coll reg accidents have we had due to non visibility? As I understand it all were visible .. Ouzo would seem so (although waiting full report) Wakuna (sp) definitely so what's the real problem?
 
Re: Masthead all-round red over green ??????????????

How about this...

whilst cruising round the med we have come across a number of vessels, (some cruise ships, but not all), which have so many lights, of varying colours, that it is really hard to make out their steaming lights until they get fairly close.

I'm not sure if their are any rules allowing them, or preventing them, from showing this fairground of lights but, if they can do it, why cant we?

But much better for something to be enshrined in the rules.
 
I remember speaking with a ferry captain and he would have liked strobe lights at the mast head. The essential is to be seen.

John
 
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