Mast tabernacle...disadvantages?

Greenheart

Greenheart

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I was watching Griff Rhys Jones's very pleasant 'Rivers' programme (see it, if you haven't); the episode about the Fens.

Couldn't help thinking that while my first interest is always sailing at sea, it would be a fine thing to have the freedom to drop the mast and head up-river (not necessarily in the Fens) under bridges, branches and telegraph wires.

I realise this isn't a revelation to anyone, but actually, mast tabernacles or equivalent mast-lowering systems, aren't as commonplace as might be expected in a country where often you could increase your range if you could decrease air-draft.

Is there a reason for this - such as some marked weakness or rig-deficiency caused by modification for ease of lowering?

Or is it unquestionably an advantage, assuming one visits low-headroom locations?
 
That's funny Jumbleduck. :biggrin-new:

And I've total respect for what is probably a very popular point of view, but I'm reminded of something I heard somewhere...

"Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way." Me, I quite fancy a tabernacle.
 
I don't see why a tabernacle should be a pain for cruisers if one has a roller headsail, as long as one has a spare headsail / spinnaker halliard; just detach the roller and do the lowering and raising bit with the separate halliard.

I would say as most boats won't have the counterweight on the mast foot used by canal / broads boats, it's not a magic answer allowing mast up & down at the drop of a hat, so probably just handy at beginning and end of season.

Keen racers won't like it mainly because of looks ( ! :) ) but also because of the mast bend characteristics where a keel stepped mast bent in much the same fashion as an archer's bow is ideal.
 
If you want to regularly drop your mast then you have to devise a suitable tabernacle and associated gear to do it. Up to about 22' boat it is not too difficult as the mast is usually short enough to manage manually or with the help of a spar such as spinnaker pole or an A frame to extend the hauling point forward. Shrouds need to be arranged so that they do not kink. Plenty of example of how it is done from Polish lake boats to small broads cruisers to Cornish Crabbers and other small west country boats.

Once you go up in size then such devices as counterweights (common on broads boats) or high pivot tabernacles with boom attached to that rather than the mast. Helpful to have a bowsprit to move the hauling point forward. However the need for self lowering is not common and rarely applicable to leisure boat sailors except in specific locations. Neither is it suitable for today's high tension fractional rigs.
 
In the size range of boats where tabernacles are practical, then they are not that uncommon. A bit like lifting keels- the engineering gets harder as the boat gets bigger, and the need tends to go away.
 
Kelpie said:
In the size range of boats where tabernacles are practical, then they are not that uncommon. A bit like lifting keels- the engineering gets harder as the boat gets bigger, and the need tends to go away.
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+1,

3 of us, 2 Anderson 22's and a Trident 24, get together for mast raising or lowering - a lot of other similar sized boats dispersed around our club get together doing the same thing, or sometimes a team of handy guys goes from boat to boat.

It's not that hard to self-lift a Centaur mast, but it's beginning to get serious.

As Kelpie says, lift keels also become serious engineering beyond about 24', which is why the vast majority of larger lift keel designers go for the frankly easier but less efficient ' hull ballast stub with a light plate going through it ' as in the Anderson 26, Seal 26 & 28, Parkers etc.

Also when at or beyond 24' an outboard in a well becomes less practical than an inboard - sod the ' sound barrier and Chuck Yeager loudmouth threshold ', everything seems to happen on a logarithmic scale of ' enjoyment & rewarding to sail / hassle ' at the 24' barrier ! :)
 
Seajet said:
I don't see why a tabernacle should be a pain for cruisers if one has a roller headsail, as long as one has a spare headsail / spinnaker halliard; just detach the roller and do the lowering and raising bit with the separate halliard.
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The foil is a big, heavy, saggy thing which is a complete pain when raising and lowering the mast. My Hunter 490 has a pivoted (but not tabernacled) mast, and even the fairly simple roller reefing system on that is a nuisance. and that's without the sail on it.

Another thing: masts are nowadays generally a bit longer than the boat. Pivot that down about a point which is usually about a third of the way back from the bows and you have an overhang at the back half as long as the boat.

And all this so you can get a wee bit further up a few rivers? Meh.
 
dancrane said:
... but I'm reminded of something I heard somewhere...

"Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."
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It's from "The Voyages of Dr Doolittle", by Hugh Lofting. The forums don't allow much text in a signature: the full version is

“I know of a good sailor, Doctor,” said Joe—“a first-class seaman who would be glad of the job.”

“No, thank you, Joe,” said Doctor Dolittle. “I don’t want any seamen. I couldn’t afford to hire them. And then they hamper me so, seamen do, when I’m at sea. They’re always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way..."​
 
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Thank you, Mr Duck, I can almost hear Rex Harrison saying it.

A lot of good sense has been spoken here. And if I think way, way back to....January, I ought to remember what a royal pain it was, just putting the Osprey's mast up again. So I can see it's probably only appropriate for very small yachts, some of which do use it.

I still like it though, and since my shopping plans don't include any large yachts in the near future, I'll keep it in mind.
 
dancrane said:
I still like it though, and since my shopping plans don't include any large yachts in the near future, I'll keep it in mind.
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I know you're also favourably disposed to gaff rig, and it does work quite well there.:

  • You have a bowsprit, which can be arranged to act as an always-ready gin-pole.
  • The mast is shorter than an equivalent bermudan.
  • Staying is generally simpler, at least in smaller boats, with everything running direct to the hounds.
  • Rig tension, and general levels of fussiness and tweaking, are typically lower. They're designed for natural materials that warped and shrank and stretched all over the place anyway.
  • Roller jibs are more likely to use a Wykeham Martin than a reefing spar. Staysails will probably be hank-on.

Pete
 
Seajet said:
Gaff or gunter rigs are highly commendable, but only a mind-boggling pervert registering at least 9.1 on the Geneva Convention scale would fit one on an Osprey. :)
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Hah, yes. This was with Dan's future yacht in mind, not the current dinghy. Just suggesting that he might enjoy a small gaffer.

If I remember rightly, his debut on the forum was asking about converting a Centaur to a gaff ketch or schooner :D

Pete
 
Seajet said:
Snag is the sailing performance like a bucket too...
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He wants to drive it up rivers so don't think he'll be doing much sailing! Besides sailed properly Drascombe Luggers can be quite entertaining, especially in a blow. Don't think he's looking for something to win the America's Cup with ... :cool:
 
prv said:
Hah, yes. This was with Dan's future yacht in mind, not the current dinghy.
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Dan's postings often remind me - in the nicest way - of an old Peyton cartoon. Very annoyed looking chap has been disturbed while talking to a salesman on a very expensive yacht at the Boat Show by another chap calling up "Hello there. Thinking of giving up the old Mirror, are you?"
 
When one lowers a mast using a tabernacle it's normal to shuffle the mast along when it's horizontal on deck - to one side of the main hatch - to give equal overhangs either end; I do this with my pivotted mast step for the trips between the mooring and the hoist.

In case it's worth mentioning, I also take that opportunity to undo the big plastic nut under the VHF aerial and fit it reversed, pointing downwards alongside the mast; as I, like most at my club lower the mast a week or two before lift-out, a wire aerial, even with the plastic blob on the end, would be a nasty ' Gotcha ' at eye level for smartarse windsurfers or dinghy sailors cutting it close.

The Windex is ultra vulnerable, so removed completely and taken home.
 
Seajet said:
When one lowers a mast using a tabernacle it's normal to shuffle the mast along when it's horizontal on deck - to one side of the main hatch - to give equal overhangs either end; I do this with my pivotted mast step for the trips between the mooring and the hoist.
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That's fine for a semi-permanent lowering, like a winter ashore or a trip to the Med by canal, but not really to duck under a bridge and sail on the other side. Of course the huge overhang is less of a problem for short periods, but unless you go gaff it'll still be a pain.
 
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