mast delivery cost

[JumbleDuck]

No the opposite. The buyer owes the money and the supplier is likely to be successful in recovering the debt.

He would have to prove that the debt exists, though, and I think that it would, in the absence of any agreement or discussion of the costs, be very hard for him to do that. £1500 for a van delivery from Plymouth to Essex is not reasonable, even with a trailer attached.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm trying to understand what has happened here. It sounds as if OP ordered a mast from a Solent based spar manufacture, which was delivered to another company (the rigger) in Plymouth and then taken all the way back and onto Essex. It certainly seems a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, but I'm sure there were reasons.

I thought the riggers were on the Solent and that they ordered the mast from a supplier in Plymouth (Google quickly shows that there is at least one mast manufacturer there). The bare mast was delivered from Plymouth to the Solent, had rigging added and was then sent on to Essex, with another mast.

 

[Tranona]

He would have to prove that the debt exists, though, and I think that it would, in the absence of any agreement or discussion of the costs, be very hard for him to do that. £1500 for a van delivery from Plymouth to Essex is not reasonable, even with a trailer attached.

Where did the £1500 come from? The OP says the bill was £800 which is not excessive. Difficult to understand how there can have been no discussion about delivery charges when the mast is in Plymouth and the OP wanted it in Essex (via a third party in Southampton). The OP instructed the supplier to carry out a delivery. The time for discussion about cost, and the exploration of possible cheaper alternatives was then, not 6 months after the event. He has received the service he ordered so cannot see any reason why he should not pay for it.

Despite the OPs long account of events (from his point of view) he avoids any reference to what the supplier quoted for, what the terms and conditions were and any subsequent discussions or agreements. His bargaining power at the moment is non existent based on what he has said.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Where did the £1500 come from?

The claim is that two masts were delivered in the same run, at a cost of £800 each. I am generously deducting £50 each for hire of mast trailer ...

The OP says the bill was £800 which is not excessive.

I disagree. I think it is grossly excessive for a half-share of a van from Plymouth to Essex, even if the van had to tow a trailer.

Difficult to understand how there can have been no discussion about delivery charges when the mast is in Plymouth and the OP wanted it in Essex (via a third party in Southampton). The OP instructed the supplier to carry out a delivery. The time for discussion about cost, and the exploration of possible cheaper alternatives was then, not 6 months after the event. He has received the service he ordered so cannot see any reason why he should not pay for it..

Well yes, sort of. It should definitely have been sorted out in advance. However, that does not give the supplier carte blanche to charge anything he likes. Do you think a court would agree if, to be ridiculous, the delivery bill was £100,000?

I don't think we're getting all of the story, though. Has the bill been paid? Is legal action under way? Why is it being raised here so late?

 

[Tranona]

The claim is that two masts were delivered in the same run, at a cost of £800 each. I am generously deducting £50 each for hire of mast trailer ...



I disagree. I think it is grossly excessive for a half-share of a van from Plymouth to Essex, even if the van had to tow a trailer.

That is completely irrelevant. He was not charged £1500, but £800. What else the carrier did at the same time was irrelevant. The OP did not hire exclusive use of a van and trailer - he ordered and was charged for delivery of his mast.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That is completely irrelevant. He was not charged £1500, but £800. What else the carrier did at the same time was irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant if the supplier is ever asked to justify the charge in court. Do you agree that a court would, in the absence of a contract, be unlikely to support a demand by the supplier for £100,000 for delivery?

The OP did not hire exclusive use of a van and trailer - he ordered and was charged for delivery of his mast.

The OP got shared use of a van and trailer for one day. If the likely cost was not discussed beforehand, then I think justifying £800 for that could be a tad tricky.

Both sides seem to be at fault here. The supplier should have said what delivery would cost and the customer should have asked.

 

[Poignard]

That is completely irrelevant. He was not charged £1500, but £800. What else the carrier did at the same time was irrelevant. The OP did not hire exclusive use of a van and trailer - he ordered and was charged for delivery of his mast.

Just so. If I take the bus to Croydon and I am the only passenger it costs me £4. If someone else gets on I don't get a £2 refund.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just so. If I take the bus to Croydon and I am the only passenger it costs me £4. If someone else gets on I don't get a £2 refund.

I sent a bureau from Edinburgh to the south of Germany recently. It cost £200 as a shared load. It would have cost £500 on its own.

If we are to believe what has been written her (and we have heard only one side) there was no discussion of delivery costs. That does not give the supplier any more right to charge whatever he wants than it gives the customer to pay whatever he wants. That's why there is law on unfair contracts, and why it specifically covers cases when costs have not been discussed.

 

[Tranona]

Why should he be asked to justify it in court? Might be different if he indicated a lower cost then charged a higher price after the event. Pretty sure that the supplier would be able to show that his delivery charges were acceptable in the market. He does not have to justify them in terms of his "costs".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why should he be asked to justify it in court? Might be different if he indicated a lower cost then charged a higher price after the event. Pretty sure that the supplier would be able to show that his delivery charges were acceptable in the market. He does not have to justify them in terms of his "costs".

If the OP has not paid, and the supplier takes him to court, perhaps?

If the supplier failed to get the cost of delivery agreed in advance, and if he failed to discuss the costs, he is on very, very sticky ground.

 

[Poignard]

I sent a bureau from Edinburgh to the south of Germany recently. It cost £200 as a shared load. It would have cost £500 on its own.

If we are to believe what has been written her (and we have heard only one side) there was no discussion of delivery costs. That does not give the supplier any more right to charge whatever he wants than it gives the customer to pay whatever he wants. That's why there is law on unfair contracts, and why it specifically covers cases when costs have not been discussed.

What is unfair when someone says "I want you to do a job for me but I don't care enough about what it will cost to even ask"?

 

[JumbleDuck]

What is unfair when someone says "I want you to do a job for me but I don't care enough about what it will cost to even ask"?

What is fair about providing a service, failing to make clear the cost of that service in advance, and then charging at a profit rate of several hundred percent?

 

[winsbury]

Perhaps distance selling regulations apply, in which caseI believe the whole price should have been made clear in advance?

 

[Poignard]

Time's money lad!

What is fair about providing a service, failing to make clear the cost of that service in advance, and then charging at a profit rate of several hundred percent?

It was a lot of money and I can understand it being a nasty shock to the OP. But I'm not sure you could necessarily say it was unreasonable.

In post #4 Tranona wrote: "Do the sums. 600 miles at 30p a mile is £180 (£120 in fuel alone at 30 mpg). Driver is unlikely to be able to do a return trip in a day, so 2 days work and an overnight stop. Soon adds up and doubt they made any money on the delivery alone."

If anything I would say the cost per mile would be greater than Tranona estimates because the towing car isn't likely to give a very good mpg when towing a long mast, bearing in mind the weight and windage. Also, an overnight stop and meals would have been required by the driver. And who did the driving? Does the rigging firm employ a full time driver on minimum wage or did one of the riggers have to make the trip? If so, what might his hourly rate as a skilled man be? While he's driving around the country he isn't earning money rigging masts for his employer. Also he wasn't just driving, he would have to see the spars lifted on/off and properly secured. Insurance would be another cost.

These things soon mount up (and there'd be VAT to add on).

About 5 years ago I had to pay a haulage contractor £220 to have a yacht cradle moved about 25 miles. It didn't weigh very much but needed a lorry rather than a van because of its size.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, when the OP tackles the firm about the delivery charge, they could show that delivery using a haulage contractor would have cost more, especially when protective packaging would have been needed.

As regards the late delivery of the spars, that's another story!

 

[Lakesailor]

I've lost the will to live

 

[JumbleDuck]

In post #4 Tranona wrote: "Do the sums. 600 miles at 30p a mile is £180 (£120 in fuel alone at 30 mpg). Driver is unlikely to be able to do a return trip in a day, so 2 days work and an overnight stop. Soon adds up and doubt they made any money on the delivery alone."

I agree that Plymouth to Essex and back in a day would be pushing it, but neither Plymouth - Solent nor Solent - Essex would seem to justify an overnight stop. And lets not forget that they had two masts on for the second bit at least, so that's only sixty quid in fuel each out of the £800 charged.

And who did the driving? Does the rigging firm employ a full time driver on minimum wage or did one of the riggers have to make the trip? If so, what might his hourly rate as a skilled man be? While he's driving around the country he isn't earning money rigging masts for his employer.

They might as well have sent the company lawyer and charged £200/hour for his time ...

I wouldn't expect a mast delivery to be cheap. Perhaps they can even justify £800, but if they didn't discuss costs first, they are potentially stuffed. Last time I asked, not long ago, taking a 3 tonne boat four hundred miles on a low loader would have cost £1000. That includes the mast.

 

[charles_reed]

I've lost the will to live

I trust only temporarily :-?

 

[Poignard]

I agree that Plymouth to Essex and back in a day would be pushing it, .

It would, and why should they push it? They're running a business, not a distressed yachtsmen's aid society.

They might as well have sent the company lawyer and charged £200/hour for his time ...

That's daft; and doesn't deal with the point. Someone had to drive the vehicle someone had to be paid for doing it, and he had to be paid his usual hourly rate. Can you imagine the boss saying to one of his riggers, "Now lad, stop what you're doing and take this mast to (wherever). Oh, and by the way, you're on minimum hourly rate while your doing it! Get your missus to make you some sandwiches because we're not paying for your meals. And don't forget your sleeping bag."

 

[KenMcCulloch]

About 5 years ago I had to pay a haulage contractor £220 to have a yacht cradle moved about 25 miles. It didn't weigh very much but needed a lorry rather than a van because of its size.

..... and from where I stand you were overcharged. We recently had a cradle (dismantled, admittedly and travelling as a part load) conveyed about 130 miles for £100 plus £15 for it to be loaded on the truck at the start. I have no opinion about the OP's problem but it does seem like a lot of money just to move a mast.

 

[Poignard]

..... and from where I stand you were overcharged. We recently had a cradle (dismantled, admittedly and travelling as a part load) conveyed about 130 miles for £100 plus £15 for it to be loaded on the truck at the start. I have no opinion about the OP's problem but it does seem like a lot of money just to move a mast.

My cradle was not one that could be dismantled, and the yard where it was was about to go into receivership so it had to be done in a hurry. Even so, I did get another quotation and that was a bit more.