Mast climbing - again.

[Graham_Wright]

At the Solent Boat Jumble, we played about with single-handed ascents using the MastaClimba and a variety of abseiling devices for descents.

Two points;- one visitor mentioned a Petzl Descender boasting two "grips" to be squeezed together to allow a rope to slide through. I could not find this on the Petzl site. Can anybody help please?

What I did find was a recall notice for the Petzl Grigri. This is what I was using for most demos. Fortunately, it seems that mine is a later serial number and unaffected but if you have one, it is worth checking. Petzl are offering free of charge replacements.

 

[alteredoutlook]

I think the device you are referring to is a http://www.cave-crag.co.uk/petzl-stop-descender

I primarily use one mine for abseiling into caves - you have to keep the red handle open to descend - once you let go (because you want to or have got hit by a falling rock etc) then it stops - that's why its called a petzyl stop! Basically its a abseiling device with a built in 'safety' function.

I also have one on my boat for when I am single handling and wish to climb/descend the mast. However, if there is another person aboard I always prefer to be lowered by them rather than have to change from ascending to descending equipment.

if you want to know more about ascending and descending ropes using aids then have a search for 'SRT' (single rope technique) - there must be lots of videos on You tube etc.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I think the device you are referring to is a http://www.cave-crag.co.uk/petzl-stop-descender

I primarily use one mine for abseiling into caves - you have to keep the red handle open to descend - once you let go (because you want to or have got hit by a falling rock etc) then it stops - that's why its called a petzyl stop! Basically its a abseiling device with a built in 'safety' function.

I also have one on my boat for when I am single handling and wish to climb/descend the mast. However, if there is another person aboard I always prefer to be lowered by them rather than have to change from ascending to descending equipment.

if you want to know more about ascending and descending ropes using aids then have a search for 'SRT' (single rope technique) - there must be lots of videos on You tube etc.

I've scoured the Petzl site (and found the Stop) but everything seems to use cams.
We started to consider manufacturing something to help on single-handed mast descents utilising rotating pulleys bearing on the rope. The braking was achieved by pads acting on the rims of the pulleys thus avoiding friction wear on the rope. What was described to me yesterday during our MastaClimba demos sounded like it used that principle. There is no point our designing something if a solution already exists.

I'll certainly search SRT - thanks.

 

[alteredoutlook]

I've scoured the Petzl site (and found the Stop) but everything seems to use cams.
We started to consider manufacturing something to help on single-handed mast descents utilising rotating pulleys bearing on the rope. The braking was achieved by pads acting on the rims of the pulleys thus avoiding friction wear on the rope. What was described to me yesterday during our MastaClimba demos sounded like it used that principle. There is no point our designing something if a solution already exists.

I'll certainly search SRT - thanks.

Generally descending does not cause friction wear on the rope - unless you are descending too fast - in which case it can burn the rope. Cavers generally wet the rope before descending to cool the rope to minimize the problem. However its really only a problem for 50+ metres descent. For the AWB with a 15-20m mast a descender shouldn't get too hot to burn a rope.

The main problem with wear on a rope is ASCENDING. here the little teeth/hooks that dig into the rope can wreck the sheaf quite easily - particularly for 'soft feel' ropes. For this reason I always use haul a caving rope that has a hard sheaf to the top of the mast to climb on.

 

[Vara]

I went on a solo mast climbing course with the Cruising Assosciation, and very good it was too.

Run by Barney Green of Higher Safety (can't get his site to link).

I've now bought a top climber;

http://www.topclimberinternational.nl/

Which works very well indeed, both ascent/descent easy and all the kit in one neat bag, very comfy to work from. £240 about, which is less than you would pay for the proper access kit.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I went on a solo mast climbing course with the Cruising Assosciation, and very good it was too.

Run by Barney Green of Higher Safety (can't get his site to link).

I've now bought a top climber;

http://www.topclimberinternational.nl/

Which works very well indeed, both ascent/descent easy and all the kit in one neat bag, very comfy to work from. £240 about, which is less than you would pay for the proper access kit.

But more than a MastaClimba which is faster and more comfortable!!

Sorry!

More seriously, is he still around? I couldn't access his site which has a name that is advertised for sale.

 

[kevink 6771]

Now i have been climbing for many years, and would defiantly go with a Petzl Shunt, I have been climbing by myself with this and have fell on it a few times with complete success.
It works on a cam lock system, will not damage the rope as some other can.
you simply put a small weight on the end of the rope (a hammer will do)
And climb away.
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/multi-purpose-ascenders/shunt
just feed the rope through, connect to the harness, tie a weight onto the lower end of the rope, then climb, it will slide up the rope freely until you need to either rest, or you slip, then it grabs the rope.

 

[Vara]

But more than a MastaClimba which is faster and more comfortable!!

Sorry!

More seriously, is he still around? I couldn't access his site which has a name that is advertised for sale.

Well he was about two months ago when I did the course.

I didn't pay that much for my top climber, gawd bless e-bay.

I haven't tried your product, but all I will say is that using the Topclimber it satisfys my requirement of being able to get Up and down my mast completely solo.

Just reread your site, which if IIRC did not cover descending when I last looked at it, one benefit of the Topclimber is that you don't have to mess about deploying descenders, it's all there.

Normal caveats, no commercial interest just a satisfied user.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Well he was about two months ago when I did the course.

I didn't pay that much for my top climber, gawd bless e-bay.

I haven't tried your product, but all I will say is that using the Topclimber it satisfys my requirement of being able to get Up and down my mast completely solo.

Just reread your site, which if IIRC did not cover descending when I last looked at it, one benefit of the Topclimber is that you don't have to mess about deploying descenders, it's all there.

Normal caveats, no commercial interest just a satisfied user.

Yes, thanks must update the site. I've changed the instructions but not the description in the site.

I have a Shunt but it baffles me (old age). I'll try again.

At the Solent Boat Jumble, I used the Grigri for the single handed ascent which is slower but less aggressive than the Ascendeur which I normally use because of the absence of teeth. (I normally use the Ascendeur to take a safety line). The problem with the Grigri is that you need to pull up the "fall" which is messy. However, on the way down it is a doddle. Speedy and feels safe. As I have a carabiner hooking the chair to the ascent line, as it collides with the MastaClimba on the way down, it "collects" it and we all go down together. (The MastaClimba slides in this circumstance because the force is applied at the centre as opposed to on the foot rests). As a secondary (tertiary?) back up, if it all goes pear shaped I can grab the MastaClimba footrests and it will lock up and stop the fall. (What to do then hasn't arisen yet!).

I am still looking for this twin pulley descender described to me enthusiastically at the jumble and have contacted Petzl for more info. I may be worrying too much about rope wear and a cam based device would probably suffice. However, it seems to require a slack line (like the Grigri). If the "pulley" based device has a straight run through, it may allow the use of a tensioned line which means it could be deployed on the ascent line as well as the MastaClimba.

I'm getting too carried away with all this but it is turning into a personal mission!

 

[Graham_Wright]

Now i have been climbing for many years, and would defiantly go with a Petzl Shunt, I have been climbing by myself with this and have fell on it a few times with complete success.
It works on a cam lock system, will not damage the rope as some other can.
you simply put a small weight on the end of the rope (a hammer will do)
And climb away.
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/multi-purpose-ascenders/shunt
just feed the rope through, connect to the harness, tie a weight onto the lower end of the rope, then climb, it will slide up the rope freely until you need to either rest, or you slip, then it grabs the rope.

How does it allow a controlled descent?

P.S. I've just dug mine out of the kit and I might have cracked it (the problem not the Shunt!). Do you squeeze the shaped bit into the line thus releasing pressure on the cams? If true, that should mean it can be slid up the line (like an Ascendeur) without handling the "fall" and take the load whilst transferring weight from feet to seat. It would also seem that it can be used on the same line as the MastaClimba obviating the need for a separate line and bringing your hands into the same area. As the rope is already taut, you wouldn't need the hammer!

Thanks guys, for all this help. All to do with product development!

 

[onenyala]

Most interesting thing for me in the video was that the climbing rope was tied off securely to the toerail which kept the climber clear of the boom etc as he started the climb. I have always found the first part of the ascent the most difficult due to the hindrance of the boom and sail controls at the foot of the mast.

 

[IJL]

The shunt is a great bit of kit for climbing both for protecting an abseil and for self belaying but it relies on a smooth bar compressing the rope which is fine on climbing ropes which are far more elastic than sailing ropes. Shunts cant be used on static lines ( such as caving ropes) and i would expect think that halyards are are more like static lines than climbing ropes. I have no experience of climbing masts but plent of climbing, i would use a jumar and something like a grigri which can be used to ascend a rope and control a descent smoothly, short descents will not cause heat issues, rapid, long abseils (40m) can leave even a large figure 8 descender to hot to hold

 

[Graham_Wright]

Most interesting thing for me in the video was that the climbing rope was tied off securely to the toerail which kept the climber clear of the boom etc as he started the climb. I have always found the first part of the ascent the most difficult due to the hindrance of the boom and sail controls at the foot of the mast.

Which video? Not mine on Utube. I tie my line to the boom and start the ascent sittingon the boom as the mast winches provide convenient step-ups.

 

[Barney Green]

Mast Climbing Training

I recently joined this forum, and contrary to some belief, am well and still offering the mast climbing training course. Thank you to those who have attended and left positive comment.
My website has had problems, but should be available through www.Higher Safety.org
My email contact is Barney.green@highersafety.org
Good luck with the equipment selection.