Market Madness?

GravyStain said:
Agree.

Mortgage rates are so cheap currently. Accessing 5 year fixed deals at sub 1.5% {personal} or at 3% for a business is easy.
These rates make it relatively easy to make money in the medium term.
Do the bankers know something we don't? I can't believe there is a financial storm coming any time soon when I am being offered these rates regularly.

Additionally, if you're financial profile is such that affording finance is relatively risk free then I see no issue with it.
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I have access to asset-back finance.

This is where the loan is fixed on the asset (the boat) and i dont have to use any other assets to secure the loan.

Which is great (y)
 
Bigplumbs said:
More TLC Needed on a 5 year boat than New... Not true I am afraid
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It's not just TLC you need on a new boat. You need the stomach for a fight. I know an ex boat owner whose new boat's engines were Friday afternoon jobs. He never did get them sorted out and in the end he sold the boat in disgust. I saw with my own eyes a fitter hacking off the teak from the swim platform of a brand new mobo because the tender chocks had been placed incorrectly, the door to the crew accommodation couldn't be opened when the tender was on board, and the only way to put things right was to start again. There was a thread on here about a new boat which was delivered by road with substantial damage to the topsides from a bridge strike. I could go on.

Shane, if you do buy a new boat, given that you are a complete novice, I suggest that you consider appointing an experienced surveyor to scrutinise the contract, supervise the build, conduct the acceptance trials, and carry out a survey a few weeks before the warranty expires.
 
Olde hands on here will remember sage advice from posters well able to afford just about anything on the market , any new boat should always be independently surveyed prior to handover of final payment.
On secondhand craft use by previous owners reveals faults.
Latent faults in build quality on new boats and equipment will remain hidden , the more expensive the greater the need for critical inspection. ?
 
TwoHooter said:
It's not just TLC you need on a new boat. You need the stomach for a fight. I know an ex boat owner whose new boat's engines were Friday afternoon jobs. He never did get them sorted out and in the end he sold the boat in disgust. I saw with my own eyes a fitter hacking off the teak from the swim platform of a brand new mobo because the tender chocks had been placed incorrectly, the door to the crew accommodation couldn't be opened when the tender was on board, and the only way to put things right was to start again. There was a thread on here about a new boat which was delivered by road with substantial damage to the topsides from a bridge strike. I could go on.

Shane, if you do buy a new boat, given that you are a complete novice, I suggest that you consider appointing an experienced surveyor to scrutinise the contract, supervise the build, conduct the acceptance trials, and carry out a survey a few weeks before the warranty expires.
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‘A stomach for a fight’ could not be truer words. But in the end the boat dealer will wear you down, they have more experience ??
 
TwoHooter said:
It's not just TLC you need on a new boat. You need the stomach for a fight. I know an ex boat owner whose new boat's engines were Friday afternoon jobs. He never did get them sorted out and in the end he sold the boat in disgust. I saw with my own eyes a fitter hacking off the teak from the swim platform of a brand new mobo because the tender chocks had been placed incorrectly, the door to the crew accommodation couldn't be opened when the tender was on board, and the only way to put things right was to start again. There was a thread on here about a new boat which was delivered by road with substantial damage to the topsides from a bridge strike. I could go on.

Shane, if you do buy a new boat, given that you are a complete novice, I suggest that you consider appointing an experienced surveyor to scrutinise the contract, supervise the build, conduct the acceptance trials, and carry out a survey a few weeks before the warranty expires.
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Thanks for the advice

I plan to employ the services of an independent broker who will assist me in the whole process of negotiations, contracts, surveys, paperwork, warranties etc etc

I'll probably start making more concrete plans after ive been to The Dusseldorf Boat Show in January 2022

(y)
 
oldgit said:
Olde hands on here will remember sage advice from posters well able to afford just about anything on the market , any new boat should always be independently surveyed prior to handover of final payment.
On secondhand craft use by previous owners reveals faults.
Latent faults in build quality on new boats and equipment will remain hidden , the more expensive the greater the need for critical inspection. ?
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So much of boats consists of latent defects. It’s more a question of when they cease to be latent.
 
petem said:
I've seen similar horror stories for Azimut, Princess and even San Lorenzo.

A new boat just gives you different issues IMO. If you're not prepared to put up with a degree of hassle, don't buy a boat.
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Its no different from buying a new build house

There is always a snag list....ive had some with hundreds of defects

But if you have a good contract and you work with good people then it always gets sorted in the end

Its just part of the journey and each time you learn something new....its what keeps life interesting

(y)
 
I think you see "warranty" as in a car where when it does not work you bring it in and get it fixed pronto.

Very different in boats. I remember a brand new (CAT motors) 50 something, owner gets out first real trip to Sardinia and get stuck 20 miles offshore, towing, costs, holiday lost, evil fight between the shop that delivered the boat, CAT, the company, it was August so no one to find ..... after the usual heated letters and lawyer names thrown around , 2 visits from CAT - finally the clue, some filter was mounted the other way around (on both engines), the result was a underpressure somewhere in the diesel lines with sensor shutting down the circus and something error on a display.

So it will get fixed (maybe) but as Porto said debugging is a real chore with a new boat, time lost with no end, we had a brand new Fairline with IPSs sinking somewhere in the threads, good luck coming out of that with either money or another new boat. And a already-sunk-once boat - good luck selling that 2 years later.

My point - get a recent boat with a spotless survey, on a 1 Mio new purchase you will save easily 300K on a recent one, ready in the water, and lose much less on depreciation, and if you have an issue paying to get it fixed ASAP is a much easier way than fighting a builder / shop for months. Also finding a new owner after 2-3 years will be much easier due to the lower amount of money involved. You can get the survey from US, fly over to make a final trial on the water and be on your way 2 days later.

Also in EU there is no suing for 1Mio $ because your dream holiday went south due to the new boat faults - the kind of "I burnt my tongue at McDonald give 2 Mio$". Starting budget for a lawyer in boaty things is easily 10K and the builder will slog you for years wearing you down. And even if they lose after 2 year all you will get is the spare parts costs.
 
While second hand boats are overpriced and thin on the ground, I don’t think that you can dismiss a new boat purchase as a bad idea. Of course you can be unlucky, but those same poorly made boats are on the second hand market disguised as a sorted boat. So buyer beware in all cases
 
Bouba said:
While second hand boats are overpriced and thin on the ground, I don’t think that you can dismiss a new boat purchase as a bad idea. Of course you can be unlucky, but those same poorly made boats are on the second hand market disguised as a sorted boat. So buyer beware in all cases
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Nothing said on here will change my mind.

I like new....its why i swap my car every few years.

And with boats the interiors can look dated very quickly

my tastes are very contemporary

(y)
 
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I don't want to change anyone mind. But you are comparing cars with homes and boats. I think they have different purchasing paths and issues, I guess everyone here is trying to outline this.

ShaneAtSea said:
my tastes are very contemporary
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I was in a Navetta 48 in Cannes. Spent one hour there. The smell of IKEA furniture is still in my nose (beside all the other tons of issues which made the Navetta an unsafe boat). I prefer the warm wood internals of an older San Lorenzo for example, but as usual on taste etc etc.
 
Bouba said:
While second hand boats are overpriced and thin on the ground, I don’t think that you can dismiss a new boat purchase as a bad idea. Of course you can be unlucky, but those same poorly made boats are on the second hand market disguised as a sorted boat. So buyer beware in all cases
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No ones saying it’s a “bad idea “.We are saying a 3- 5 yr old is a BETTER idea .
There needs to be some one buying new to keep the whole eco system marine economy going .

You can not compare boats to cars and many indeed motor analogy either its very narrow or just doesn’t work with boats .It doesn’t stop forumites trying inc me slipping into the cars :D
 
Portofino said:
No ones saying it’s a “bad idea “.We are saying a 3- 5 yr old is a BETTER idea .
There needs to be some one buying new to keep the whole eco system marine economy going .

You can not compare boats to cars and many indeed motor analogy either its very narrow or just doesn’t work with boats .It doesn’t stop forumites trying inc me slipping into the cars :D
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I wasnt saying that cars and boats are the same

I was saying that i like NEW cars

Some people love driving round in an old Jaguar from the 1980s but it doesnt power steering, a sat nav and it smells musty so its not for me

I like new smell, the latest tech and lots of glass

:cool:
 
Portofino said:
No ones saying it’s a “bad idea “.We are saying a 3- 5 yr old is a BETTER idea .
There needs to be some one buying new to keep the whole eco system marine economy going .

You can not compare boats to cars and many indeed motor analogy either its very narrow or just doesn’t work with boats .It doesn’t stop forumites trying inc me slipping into the cars :D
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I think it’s just the wrong time to buy used. A good market for sellers and a poor one for buyers. I could have bought a used Tesla but there wasn’t any point.........?
 
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