Marine SSB and Ham HF/SSB

[haydude]

I am just getting interested in SSB and Ham radio and I would like to ask for a clarification.

Reading around the internet I understand that:

1) Some Marine SSB and Ham radio frequencies overlap, hence communications between the two users groups should be allowed
2) There are Marine SSB nets with onshore stations running weather reports and regular updates (example UK Maritime Net on 14303 kHz)

However, talking to a Ham Tutor with Full License he said that it is strictly prohibited to an Ham in the UK to get in touch with any vessel on Marine Frequencies. I said I agree, that definately applies to VHF, there are also frequencies restricted to Marine SSB only, but why not on the overlapping frequencies like for example on 20m 14 MHz?

Please could anyone with experience and license clarify?

 

[Conachair]

I am just getting interested in SSB and Ham radio and I would like to ask for a clarification.

Reading around the internet I understand that:

1) Some Marine SSB and Ham radio frequencies overlap, hence communications between the two users groups should be allowed
2) There are Marine SSB nets with onshore stations running weather reports and regular updates (example UK Maritime Net on 14303 kHz)

However, talking to a Ham Tutor with Full License he said that it is strictly prohibited to an Ham in the UK to get in touch with any vessel on Marine Frequencies. I said I agree, that definately applies to VHF, there are also frequencies restricted to Marine SSB only, but why not on the overlapping frequencies like for example on 20m 14 MHz?

Please could anyone with experience and license clarify?

There isn´t an overlap, technically with a ham license you can´t transmit on a marine ssb frequency. Though that doesn´t seem to be very well inforced. The other way round, transmitting on a ham band without a licencse, you´re more likely to be found out. If chatting to other hams anyway, who will probably ignore you. Plenty info of both ham and marine ssb nets on google. The 14303 maritime mobile is a ham net.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

No overlap. The ham band is 14.000 to 14.350 mc/s and the marine SSB are on either side of this at 12.3 or 16.5mc/s.

As to the "strictly prohibited" - well there are lots of things against the rules but IMO that only matters if there is enforcement. Which I dont believe there is. So I would not hesitate to use a marine frequency to talk to a ship if I ever wanted to. Thought why would I want to do?

The 14.030 is a ham net. I dont know whether they would talk to you without a legitimate ham callsign.

Got to say I wonder why so many cruising sailors are interested in SSB. Sure it can be some use for example crossing the atlantic but for most of us its a complete waste of time and money. Certainly thats the case if you never leave coastal UK.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Both of the above are correct.

What is it that you are trying to do ?

 

[haydude]

The 14303 maritime mobile is a ham net.

I am afraid it is still not clear. Does it mean that those communicating on 14303 kHz are not vessels?

 

[haydude]

Both of the above are correct.

What is it that you are trying to do ?

Even more confused ...

I would like to be able to communicate to both Ham and other vessesls from my yacht.

What licenses do I require? Is Marine SSB sufficient? Do I need both Marine SSB and Ham?

How can there be Marine Nets on Ham frequencies (like the UK and Med one) if the frequencies do not overlap?

I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all). The license states a range of frequencies rather than specific channels, and the range includes Ham frequencies. So why someone say they do not overlap? Is this just because Marine SSB rigs are just programmed to use frequencies outside of Ham ranges?

 

[Conachair]

I am afraid it is still not clear. Does it mean that those communicating on 14303 kHz are not vessels?

No, it means is a ham frequency on an amatuer radio band, not a marine ssb frequency. There are 3 different ham license levels, foundation, intermediate and advanced. First 2 can trasmit from land, to transmit from a boat outside the low water mark you need the advanced ticket. Anyone you hear on that frequency with a call sign ending in "MM" (maritime mobile) will be on a boat.

Don´t know much about the marine ssb side of things, sorry.

 

[Conachair]

Even more confused ...

I would like to be able to communicate to both Ham and other vessesls from my yacht.

What licenses do I require? Is Marine SSB sufficient? Do I need both Marine SSB and Ham?

Officially yes

How can there be Marine Nets on Ham frequencies (like the UK and Med one) if the frequencies do not overlap?
The marine bit is just a name, it´s not actually on a marine SSB frequency


I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all). The license states a range of frequencies rather than specific channels, and the range includes Ham frequencies.
Check again, it doesn´t


So why someone say they do not overlap? Is this just because Marine SSB rigs are just programmed to use frequencies outside of Ham ranges?

..Here´s the ham freqs http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/ham_radio/ham-bands/hf-amateur-frequencies.php

 

[maby]

Even more confused ...

I would like to be able to communicate to both Ham and other vessesls from my yacht.

What licenses do I require? Is Marine SSB sufficient? Do I need both Marine SSB and Ham?

How can there be Marine Nets on Ham frequencies (like the UK and Med one) if the frequencies do not overlap?

I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all). The license states a range of frequencies rather than specific channels, and the range includes Ham frequencies. So why someone say they do not overlap? Is this just because Marine SSB rigs are just programmed to use frequencies outside of Ham ranges?

To do this legally, you would need both licenses and, probably, two different radios. Each licence only authorises you to transmit on the frequencies allocated to that licence type and to communicate with other stations holding a compatible licence type.

The marine licence requires you to use approved marine band radios. The ham licence allows you to use any rario that meets the signal quality requirements of the licence (including home made, or modified commercial radios) provided you limit yourself to the allocated ham frequencies. Therefore, there is nothing to stop a holder of a ham licence from using a marine SSB radio that has been modified to operate on allocated ham frequencies - but I'm pretty sure that such a modification would make the radio illegal to operate under a marine SSB licence. Of course, if you are careful to observe all the rules appropriate to the licence you are operating under in each case, the chances of getting caught are very small.

Note that "ham licence" in the above refers to one of the classes of "full" licence - a holder of a Foundation licence is not supposed to use modified commercial equipment.

 

[haydude]

What licenses do I require? Is Marine SSB sufficient? Do I need both Marine SSB and Ham?

Officially yes

]

Please could you clarify? You replied "Officially Yes" but without specifying which question was answered to as "Yes".

Is marine SSB sufficient or do I need both SSB and Ham?

 

[Conachair]

Officially yes is marine SSB sufficient or do I need both SSB and Ham?

You need a marine radio long range operators certificate (think it´s called) to transmit on marine SSB frequencies and a full amature ham license to transmit at sea on a boat on the ham bands. Never the twain shall meet. Legally, anyway.

 

[prv]

I am afraid it is still not clear. Does it mean that those communicating on 14303 kHz are not vessels?

They're ham operators on board vessels.

I would like to be able to communicate to both Ham and other vessesls from my yacht.

What licenses do I require?

Well, definitely a ham license if you want to talk to hams. For talking to other vessels, it depends whether you talk to floating ham operators on ham frequencies, or non-ham operators on marine HF frequencies, in which case you will need the Long Range Certificate or whatever equivalent.

How can there be Marine Nets on Ham frequencies (like the UK and Med one) if the frequencies do not overlap?

Because "marine" just means "to do with the sea". So ham operators can devote a ham frequency to talking about boats and to ham operators on boats, and this is a marine ham net.

I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all).

Presumably this is the station license, alongside which you will also need an operator's certificate. Hopefully the course for that will answer some of these questions.

Pete

 

[whipper_snapper]

Hi there

To be legal you need a ham licence to use ham bands and marine licence to use marine bands.


Frequencies do not overlap - there are no frequencies which are allocated to both ham and marine anywhere in the radio spectrum.

It is true of course that they do share 'bands' ie ranges of frequencies such as 20m/14 MHz but within these bands they have strictly segregated frequencies. Also they tend to use different modes at lower frequencies, marine SSB is always USB whereas for some reason hams switch to LSB below 10MHz.

It is relatively easy to modify common ham radios to broadcast on marine frequencies and vice versa. I have done this with my Yaesu set. With a ham licence your radio remains legal to own; with a marine licence it is not legal - but commonly done.

It is not strictly legal to transmit on marine frequencies with a modified ham radio. But it is legal to transmit on ham frequencies with a modified marine radio (if you have a ham licence of course). That is because there is no 'type approval' for ham equipment, your (full) licence allows you to build and operate your own set if you wish.

 

[KellysEye]

Whipper Snapper is correct.

>>I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all). The license states a range of frequencies rather than specific channels, and the range includes Ham frequencies. So why someone say they do not overlap? Is this just because Marine SSB rigs are just programmed to use frequencies outside of Ham ranges?

You can't apply to Ofcom for any licence you have to pass an exam to get VHF licence or Long Range Certificate. The LRC is not an extension of a VHF licence it's a separate licence. If you had the LRC you wouldn't be asking the questions you are.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I am afraid it is still not clear. Does it mean that those communicating on 14303 kHz are not vessels?

Your confusion comes from mixing up ham radio, which can be operated by a ham operator from houses, cars , boats, planes indeed almost anywhere and marine ssb which is operated solely from boats by marine operators. So I am a ham operator and I have a ham SSB radio installed in my boat. When I use that SSB I add " /MM" to my ham call sign.

14303 is a ham radio frequency operated by ham operators. The UK base station is a land station in the UK but the net provides information to ham operators on their yachts. Its quite useful if you are in an area of the med where there is poor local weather services.

The origin of ham radio back in the last century was experimentation as radio was developing. So ham operators are allowed a lot of freedom. I can, for example, transmit TV pictures or teletext or bounce signals off the moon. Thats why the exam for a licence is a technical one.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

It is true of course that they do share 'bands' ie ranges of frequencies such as 20m/14 MHz but within these bands they have strictly segregated frequencies.

What do you mean by "band"? What is the frequency range of what you call the 20m band?

 

[maby]

Whipper Snapper is correct.

>>I applied and obtained an Ofcom Marine SSB license for my yacht (that is just an extension of the VHF+Radar+AIS+EPIRB license using the same callsign for all). The license states a range of frequencies rather than specific channels, and the range includes Ham frequencies. So why someone say they do not overlap? Is this just because Marine SSB rigs are just programmed to use frequencies outside of Ham ranges?

You can't apply to Ofcom for any licence you have to pass an exam to get VHF licence or Long Range Certificate. The LRC is not an extension of a VHF licence it's a separate licence. If you had the LRC you wouldn't be asking the questions you are.

Not sure that is strictly true - at least for VHF licences - the boat needs to have a licence - there is no requirement for qualifications to get the boat licence. At least one person on the boat is required to hold a SRC certificate, but there is no personal licence in the way there is for amateur radio. As far as I can see, there is no separate licence for HF SSB equipment - you just add it to the list of equipment installed. When you apply for the boat's licence there are no questions to complete relating to your, or anyone else's, possession of the corresponding certificates.

 

[prv]

You can't apply to Ofcom for any licence you have to pass an exam to get VHF licence or Long Range Certificate.

You certainly do apply to Ofcom for radio licenses - I have both a Ship Radio License and a Ship Portable Radio License.

Along with that license you need both an operator's certificate and the Secretary of State's Authority to Operate. This what you're thinking of - it's the operator's certificate that you take the exam for. The Authority to Operate is printed on the back of the license, so you don't need to worry about that separately.

Pete

 

[maby]

You certainly do apply to Ofcom for radio licenses - I have both a Ship Radio License and a Ship Portable Radio License.

Along with that license you need both an operator's certificate and the Secretary of State's Authority to Operate. This what you're thinking of - it's the operator's certificate that you take the exam for. The Authority to Operate is printed on the back of the license, so you don't need to worry about that separately.

Pete

And I do not believe that there is any requirement for the person named on the Ship's Radio Licence to hold an Authority to Operate. All that matters is that the person holding the microphone either has a certificate or is being supervised by someone that does.

 

[Conachair]

.....ham radio, which can be operated by a ham operator from houses, cars , boats, planes indeed almost anywhere....

Almost,

Could this be the new colregs?

9(3) Without prejudice to Clause 1 of this Licence, the Licensee shall not establish or use
the Radio Equipment in any Aircraft or other Airborne Vehicle.

http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binar...io/guidance-for-licensees/samplelicence07.pdf

Only know that cos the advanced exam is not that far away.

9(4) is interesting. If you are the skipper then you should give yourself written permission to turn the ham set on.