Marine ply restoration advice

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kevink 6771

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cheshire, UK
www.kbiltd.com
Hi All,
I'm pretty new to this site, but i'm in a pickle what to do, i've recently bought a marine ply Rossiter Pintail 24' yacht which has been sadly neglected over the last few years.
Apart from needing a full interior refit, Engine and sails, She is suffering from some damp/rot and holes.
Now i'm not really concerned about the rot and holes, as i am pretty competent at fixing this (it needs a 8ft x 1 1/2 ft section replaced on the hull side, and both Gunwales replacing)
But my concerns lay elsewhere, currently she has varying levels of protection on her, from No epoxy what soever on the exposed ply, to several layers of different paints.
No i know i'll need to sand down until all the paint is smooth and attached firmly.
but i'm wondering what to do about the exposed damp ply?
It looks like she was originally built without an epoxy covering prior to painting! Is this normal?
She is sat on the beach at Conwy, and cannot be dry stored, i have covered her with a tarpaulin to deflect as mush rain as possible.
Is there a paint i can use if the marine ply is not completely dry?
or what else can i do?
I presume i should not use any epoxy on this boat as the ply is not dry enough?
 
You could try water based epoxy,available from Traditional boat supplies I think,It seals the damp ply and you can then coat in an ordinary epoxy.
cindy
 
kevink 6771 said:
Hi All,
I'm pretty new to this site, but i'm in a pickle what to do, i've recently bought a marine ply Rossiter Pintail 24' yacht which has been sadly neglected over the last few years.
Apart from needing a full interior refit, Engine and sails, She is suffering from some damp/rot and holes.
Now i'm not really concerned about the rot and holes, as i am pretty competent at fixing this (it needs a 8ft x 1 1/2 ft section replaced on the hull side, and both Gunwales replacing)
But my concerns lay elsewhere, currently she has varying levels of protection on her, from No epoxy what soever on the exposed ply, to several layers of different paints.
No i know i'll need to sand down until all the paint is smooth and attached firmly.
but i'm wondering what to do about the exposed damp ply?
It looks like she was originally built without an epoxy covering prior to painting! Is this normal?
She is sat on the beach at Conwy, and cannot be dry stored, i have covered her with a tarpaulin to deflect as mush rain as possible.
Is there a paint i can use if the marine ply is not completely dry?
or what else can i do?
I presume i should not use any epoxy on this boat as the ply is not dry enough?
Click to expand...

Are you sure you are not letting your heart rule your head.
will you ever realise the value of what you are going to put in her, imho
 
Yes. it depends on your outlook. I restored a water-sodden Heron dinghy and enjoyed the work for 10 months. It was in a double garage and allowed me to thoroughly dry it out and replace/treat the ply.
If you are outdoors and don't have either any temperature control (epoxy doesn't like low temps) or power I can't think that you will be doing more than slowing the rate of decay.

I sometimes wondered if a few litres of petrol and a match wouldn't have been a wiser move.
 
kevink 6771 said:
Hi All,
I'm pretty new to this site, but i'm in a pickle what to do, i've recently bought a marine ply Rossiter Pintail 24' yacht which has been sadly neglected over the last few years.
Apart from needing a full interior refit, Engine and sails, She is suffering from some damp/rot and holes.
Now i'm not really concerned about the rot and holes, as i am pretty competent at fixing this (it needs a 8ft x 1 1/2 ft section replaced on the hull side, and both Gunwales replacing)
But my concerns lay elsewhere, currently she has varying levels of protection on her, from No epoxy what soever on the exposed ply, to several layers of different paints.
No i know i'll need to sand down until all the paint is smooth and attached firmly.
but i'm wondering what to do about the exposed damp ply?
It looks like she was originally built without an epoxy covering prior to painting! Is this normal?
She is sat on the beach at Conwy, and cannot be dry stored, i have covered her with a tarpaulin to deflect as mush rain as possible.
Is there a paint i can use if the marine ply is not completely dry?
or what else can i do?
I presume i should not use any epoxy on this boat as the ply is not dry enough?
Click to expand...
Couple of observations. First don't think you have a Rossiter Pintail there. A Pintail is 27' not 24. Secondly they are GRP, not ply, although the first one was traditionally built (of mahogany on dante from memory). Suspect you have an Eventide or a Gypsy which are similar designs, but not the same.

It would be very unusual to find an older ply boat with any form of epoxy coating. Most were built be epoxy was developed so will be just painted. Some, however, like my boat may be sheathed with a process called Cascover, but very few because it was expensive and difficult to do. Common however on Hartwell built Eventides, but those are 26', not 24.

As to coating "damp" ply, that really depends on whether it is just the outer veneer that is damp or whether it is damp because water has got into the inner laminations. If it is the former, then generally once it dries you can use a conventional coating sytem of primer/undercoat/topcoat. If the dampness is within the laminations and starting to rot, you are unlikely ever to get any coating to stick.

Although a ply boat in good condition can be a good thing to have, one that has "gone" to any degree is probably not worth the effort and money. Once damp has really got in there is little you can do and it will slowly fall apart. You can cope with small repairs and even replacing the odd panel if the rest of the boat is sound, but it will be a constant battle.
 
Tranona said:
Couple of observations. First don't think you have a Rossiter Pintail there. A Pintail is 27' not 24. Secondly they are GRP, not ply, although the first one was traditionally built (of mahogany on dante from memory). Suspect you have an Eventide or a Gypsy which are similar designs, but not the same.

:eek:
I didnt know that (oops)
It was listed as a pintail, and although i thought the stern looked different i thought this could be a personal build.
can you have a look at this link and see if you recognise her?
She's an ugly beast at the moment, but will be good once done.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190662085...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_816wt_1344

Any help would be appreciated
:confused:
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the pictures. Definitely not a Pintail, nor a Gypsy as I thought. Almost certainly home build and maybe a Robert Tucker design. In the 50's and 60's there were many plans available for home building in ply. Many were never built or were started and never finished as people grossly underestimated the amount of work involved. Some were built by small boat builders hoping that they could generate orders as a result. GRP came along and most of the disappeared without trace.

I have built a ply cruiser from that era and have owned another (professionally built) since 1980 and followed the "scene" closely, but do not recognise the boat you have, although many of the features like the shape of the coachroof and the transom are familiar.

To be honest, unless you like spending your time playing around with decaying wood and never actually getting to sea, run away from it! It just is not worth the effort. Even if you could get it seaworthy it will probably not sail very well with that underwater profile. There are much better low cost boats around.

I expect the boat was outboard powered at one time. Those two tracks on the transom are part of a sliding outboard bracket. Not worth even thinking about putting an inboard in, but you could get it mobile with a sub 10hp outboard.

I do hope they paid you the £500 to take it away and that you did not pay anything for it. Sorry to be so blunt, but I have seen too many boats like that quietly rotting away once the owners realise the enormity of the task and the unrealistic amount of money they will absorb.
 
Tranona said:
Thanks for the pictures. Definitely not a Pintail, nor a Gypsy as I thought. Almost certainly home build and maybe a Robert Tucker design. In the 50's and 60's there were many plans available for home building in ply. Many were never built or were started and never finished as people grossly underestimated the amount of work involved. Some were built by small boat builders hoping that they could generate orders as a result. GRP came along and most of the disappeared without trace.

I have built a ply cruiser from that era and have owned another (professionally built) since 1980 and followed the "scene" closely, but do not recognise the boat you have, although many of the features like the shape of the coachroof and the transom are familiar.

To be honest, unless you like spending your time playing around with decaying wood and never actually getting to sea, run away from it! It just is not worth the effort. Even if you could get it seaworthy it will probably not sail very well with that underwater profile. There are much better low cost boats around.

I expect the boat was outboard powered at one time. Those two tracks on the transom are part of a sliding outboard bracket. Not worth even thinking about putting an inboard in, but you could get it mobile with a sub 10hp outboard.

I do hope they paid you the £500 to take it away and that you did not pay anything for it. Sorry to be so blunt, but I have seen too many boats like that quietly rotting away once the owners realise the enormity of the task and the unrealistic amount of money they will absorb.
Click to expand...

could have been built by Banks who built to the designs of Tucker
 
With that reverse sheer it looks like a Debutante. Probably Robert Tucker.

I see "i've recently bought a marine ply Rossiter Pintail 24' yacht" means that advice to stay away from it is a bit late.

However having seen the pictures I think the investment in £6 of petrol and some matches may be the best route.

To restore it you would really need to get it under cover and dried out. Unfortunately even after a major rebuild it's not going to be worth anything like you'll have spent.

I bought a boat which turned out to be too far gone to restore. I sold the boat parts on ebay and cleared my outlay easily.
 
Crikey - looks like an ambitious project! I have some sympathy with the decision to buy her and although it might appear to some a hasty move, all might not be lost. I think I'd look at what she's worth to you rather than 'market value' when done up. If you have the time and ability then it may be that once restored, you'll get many hours rewarding use and one thing is certain - you'll learn loads during the process that buying a 'ready to run' boat won't provide. :D If you do decide to press on I'd start with a realistic evaluation of what it will cost - then treble it! :rolleyes: If you still think it's worthwhile, build a notification list for items you need on eBay (within x miles from where you're based if bigger stuff!), wait for bargains to arise and be patient! Even if you don't actually buy anything for 6 months, you get a much better idea of what things sell for, seasonal fluctuations and market demands. For materials, shop around - I've found that local places are often cheaper than internet and allow you to build a bit of 'goodwill' that will often be reciprocated with wise, expert advice on many aspects of the work you'll be doing.

Is there anywhere you can move her to that is dry and little or no cost? (or at least no more than mooring fees) Friendly farmer's barn, space in the corner of a warehouse or industrial unit perhaps? I'd agree a price and pay up front so you know where you stand for at least 12 months as it's going to take some time I suspect... We're in a recession so there will be people with empty property that will be glad of the revenue. Factor in any cost of moving, but once you can exclude the elements, you can a) dry her out and b) start to reverse the decline without ending up either going over ground twice - or worse, throwing cash away on stuff you'll have to rip out later anyway. Project-wise, I'd say it will depend on how determined and patient you are!
 
The description on ebay is a bit odd. Firstly I think the name of the boat is Pintail III, not the class. Then she is described as hard chine plywood but the pictures show no obvious chine. Either the chines are very cleverly disguised or she is round bilge, possible not made of plywood but of moulded veneers (triple or double diagonal with a final veneer horizontal.) Triple diagonal can be a bitch to repair but it can be done and will give a strong little boat for not a lot of outlay. I had one and the paint system was:-
Two coats of International metallic pink primer, One coat of International undercoat and two coats of gloss. This was a few years ago before all this Toplac and Brightside stuff.

Below the waterline I used two coats of the primer followed by a coat of antifouling primer then the antifouling. I got away with one coat of antiflouing because I was usually so late launching that I missed the worst of the fouling.
 
Not a project........a Labour of Love. The very best of luck with it. Please post pics/accounts of your progress. It'll be an interesting topic. Remember, nothing is impossible......except the impossible!
 
The best way is to give it a quick coat of paint and sail it for as long as you can. The suggestion to restore it, in my opinion, is a total waste of time and money. However, if you decide to restore it, you will be better off , replacing whole panels 8 x 4 ply, rather than trying to dry out half rotten panels. Make sure is bone dry and cover it with epoxy (not fibre glass) and woven cloth. You will find that the rot will be on the decks and up to water line, as rain water will rot the wood, where sea water will pickle the wood, and preserves it.

On the other hand, you can find a good GRP boat, late 60s or 70s classic for the almost the same money that will require very little maintenance and likely to be a better sailer too.
 
There are are water based resins that can help 'soft' wood. www.resoltech.com their Re1010 is a good one. But I fear that this is not a case if you are looking at replacing large areas. My father designed a few similar boats in that era. But not too many are around now. Yours is not one of them. It does look Tucker-esque. His son is still doing business with the designs. Google about.
DW
 
Thanks for your comments etc, i've taken many on board,
Although i'm obviously a little cheesed off that its not a pintail, (should have done more homework) And i wont be planning on refitting the inside to playboy standard anymore. luckily the inside is not bad condition.
But i'm not a complete novice, my last boat was a Tucker design 'Escapade' and she needed quite a bit of work to her too, and was done on the pontoon!!

This one looks far worse on the pictures, it requires the gunwales completely replacing (well at least half, but ill do the full length)
The Starboard is pretty much ok, except the paint and a section of strake.
The portside needs a 1' by 5' section replacing just below the strake, but i'm replacing 2' by 8' to be safe.
The moisture reading on the exposed ply is between 20% to 40% but the painted areas are fine, so i was planning on using gentle heat, sanding, and keeping her loosley covered unitil the humidity is ok to prime.
I wont be fitting an inboard, nor making a well, and i will use my 10hp lump to move her instead.
I'm still hoping to find out what she is though :(
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
The best way is to give it a quick coat of paint and sail it for as long as you can. The suggestion to restore it, in my opinion, is a total waste of time and money. However, if you decide to restore it, you will be better off , replacing whole panels 8 x 4 ply, rather than trying to dry out half rotten panels. Make sure is bone dry and cover it with epoxy (not fibre glass) and woven cloth. You will find that the rot will be on the decks and up to water line, as rain water will rot the wood, where sea water will pickle the wood, and preserves it.
QUOTE]

paint it and sail it - I agree - you can scarf in some ply or put backing panels on double - but the more you chop into it the less you will be left with ..... doesn't look that bad to me !!!

a good clean and a lot of paint and off you go ....
Click to expand...
 
paint it and sail it - I agree - you can scarf in some ply or put backing panels on double - but the more you chop into it the less you will be left with ..... doesn't look that bad to me !!!

a good clean and a lot of paint and off you go ....[/QUOTE]

Thanks, i Like the ' doesn't look that bad to me' comment, makes me fell slightly better.
 
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