Marina pricing

Fr J Hackett

Fr J Hackett

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Just read the article on the proposed £1 million expansion of Mylor to give an extra 30 berths. It's quite interesting when you consider the return on the capital, I guess when you put in interest payment, maintenance etc you are looking at about 15 years to start making a profit on the outlay and at that age you will almost certainly be looking at further capital costs to maintain the infrastructure and this is just an expansion. If you were creating a marina from scratch then the investment and breakeven point would be very much higher and longer.
Sobering thought when we complain about berthing costs.
 
petehb said:
Just read the article on the proposed £1 million expansion of Mylor to give an extra 30 berths. It's quite interesting when you consider the return on the capital, I guess when you put in interest payment, maintenance etc you are looking at about 15 years to start making a profit on the outlay and at that age you will almost certainly be looking at further capital costs to maintain the infrastructure and this is just an expansion. If you were creating a marina from scratch then the investment and breakeven point would be very much higher and longer.
Sobering thought when we complain about berthing costs.
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Exactly. Putting berths in a tidal zone is enormously expensive. I did a study on this about 15 years ago, based on data from a number of marinas on the south coast, particularly what was then C&N in Gosport which was being sold at the time. Dredging and maintenance costs are a significant ongoing cost.

Our club has just replaced walkways and fingers plus installation of electricity for c400 berths. No piling or dredging, just the pontoons, but the full commercial cost would have been close to £1m, but actually less than that with some volunteer labour and selling the old ones.

It is no surprise, even allowing for the supply and demand factor that marinas in what were formerly commercial docks are substantially cheaper to both build and operate and therefore berthing prices are lower.
 
petehb said:
Sobering thought when we complain about berthing costs.
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Why? Clearly the board/owners took the decision and will understand the accounting implications. It would be interesting to hear their reasoning behind the decision. Perhaps there is some European money they can tap into before the UK leaves, after all Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the EC?
 
MikeCC said:
Ha ha, you haven't looked at Exmouth Marina prices then!
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Perhaps I should have made it clearer. I was referring mainly to the developments further north, where demand is much lower and dock based marinas are also low in operating costs.

In the south (a generalisation) there are fewer redundant docks and demand is high, plus there are alternate demands on such spaces, therefore the capital values are higher. This leads to higher prices. These are, though the exceptions if you look at the annual review of prices in PBO.
 
petehb said:
Just read the article on the proposed £1 million expansion of Mylor to give an extra 30 berths. It's quite interesting when you consider the return on the capital, I guess when you put in interest payment, maintenance etc you are looking at about 15 years to start making a profit on the outlay and at that age you will almost certainly be looking at further capital costs to maintain the infrastructure and this is just an expansion. If you were creating a marina from scratch then the investment and breakeven point would be very much higher and longer.
Sobering thought when we complain about berthing costs.
Click to expand...

Unless the owner is very cash rich then I would assume the money will be borrowed from a financial institution against evidence in some business plan. I would be surprised if the only real increase in revenue is 30 berths. Is there a possible impact on the cost of berths for existing customers or has a previous loan repayment finished and potential profits risen? Money invested back into the business at this stage may produce better long term rewards. I think I will stick to a swinging mooring.

Yoda
 
Sandy said:
Why? Clearly the board/owners took the decision and will understand the accounting implications. It would be interesting to hear their reasoning behind the decision. Perhaps there is some European money they can tap into before the UK leaves, after all Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the EC?
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Of course they will have done a financial study based on what the market can and is willing to pay, the point was that in the real world it is not cheap to build or expand a marina and they are not the money trees that berth holders suspect they are.
 
petehb said:
Of course they will have done a financial study based on what the market can and is willing to pay, the point was that in the real world it is not cheap to build or expand a marina and they are not the money trees that berth holders suspect they are.
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So how come marinas in unpopular sailing areas, Preston, Whitehaven, manage to do offer berthing at less than half the price of Hamblesque locations? They have the same capital costs. The supply and demand concept is also a woeful argument: there are plenty of investors willing to put up cash for marina developments who are thwarted by vested interests. Beaumaris and the Marquise of Anglesey springs to mind.
 
Quiddle said:
So how come marinas in unpopular sailing areas, Preston, Whitehaven, manage to do offer berthing at less than half the price of Hamblesque locations? They have the same capital costs. The supply and demand concept is also a woeful argument: there are plenty of investors willing to put up cash for marina developments who are thwarted by vested interests. Beaumaris and the Marquise of Anglesey springs to mind.
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There capital costs will be no where near those of southern marinas, land prices, rates alone will significantly add to the costs.
 
Quiddle said:
So how come marinas in unpopular sailing areas, Preston, Whitehaven, manage to do offer berthing at less than half the price of Hamblesque locations? They have the same capital costs. The supply and demand concept is also a woeful argument: there are plenty of investors willing to put up cash for marina developments who are thwarted by vested interests. Beaumaris and the Marquise of Anglesey springs to mind.
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Ever tried to get planning approval for a new marina in the Solent????
 
Quiddle said:
So how come marinas in unpopular sailing areas, Preston, Whitehaven, manage to do offer berthing at less than half the price of Hamblesque locations? They have the same capital costs. The supply and demand concept is also a woeful argument: there are plenty of investors willing to put up cash for marina developments who are thwarted by vested interests. Beaumaris and the Marquise of Anglesey springs to mind.
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Not to put to finer point on it pockets are deeper, sailing is infinitely better attracting more sailors, facilities offered are generally better including the weather and shoreside facilities in the south than anywhere in north Wales or north west England so there is greater pressure on pricing both ways in the different location plus as I said early costs in the south are considerably higher than in the wastelands of the north.
 
doug748 said:
I might be an old cynic but watch for the final proposal including a "modest housing development"
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Thats not cynical, thats realistic. We have two marinas in the Bristol channel that simply wouldnt have been viable without housing development. Lock gates and harbour walls dont come cheap. Fair enough - I dont see a problem with this.
 
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