Marina Deathmatch - Largs vs Inverkip vs Troon?

Well I think Largs wins by technical knockout.

Time to get on with the training and look for a boat.

Thank you for all the input.
 
I had a yacht in Ardrossan before it was developed, 2001/2002 ish. Fantastic, loved it, the access to day sails and holiday sails was second to none. I’d go back like a shot if I lived on the same island (currently IOM). I lived in Manchester at the time and drove there and back every weekend.
 
salad said:
Clyde looks to have commercial port activity near by. Did you sleep on your boats happily, or was it a bit noisy?

I've discounted Troon now, as it looks a bit commercial and it's a fair way south. We're unlikely to be cruising the Western Isles or Ireland until we have built up a significant number of sea miles, so proximity to them isn't top priority. Shelter and comfort for sleeping aboard is the priority followed by marina facilities (shore power/showers/toilets/chandlers/milk/bread/access), local facilities (screwfix, food shops, general interest) and then day sailing potential and scenery. Cruising, until we know what we are doing, is last. If everything else is fantastic, price is not as much of a concern. £3k berth next to a 24/7 commercial port would grate on me, but £5k in relative bliss probably wouldn't. I know I'd rather £5k on a berth than a static caravan park with a load of tanked up teenagers tromping about at all hours.
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I've slept aboard in all of them; none are notable for noise. Obviously the commercial quays are subject to movement and cargo operations 24hrs but in practice this doesn't happen as it costs too much. Troon might get some noise in daytime, Ardrossan has the ferries but both are quite far from the pontoons and unless its windless you won't hear much. Largs gets daytime noise from the railway line. Largs wins on onsite food/retail facilities, with Kip & Troon joint 2nd although Ardrossan does have Checcinis just out the gate, but Troon and Ardrossan have nice sandy beaches a short walk away. No marina is child-friendly, the concept is a bit odd; they all have wifi these days and the proximity of shops is probably best at Ardrossan, although there's not much in it. Largs probably wins for daysail/overnight destinations as it's right next to Rothesay and the East Kyle, but again not much over Kip. Troon and Ardrossan are a bit disadvantaged there but there are still places to go. Ardrossan can be storm-bound in strong westerlies, as in the harbour is literally closed and you have to go elsewhere/be unable to leave. Entrance to Troon can get a bit sporty in a blow but is very rarely closed to traffic. I've never known the other two to be closed as such.

For the 'floating caravan' end of things perhaps consider Sandbank/Holy Loch, Port Bannatyne or even Portavadie; extra distance to drive(or a ferry crossing) but the prices are lower and they definitely have better scenery while tied to the pontoon.
 
salad said:
I've discounted Troon now, as it looks a bit commercial and it's a fair way south.... .... Shelter and comfort for sleeping aboard is the priority followed by marina facilities (shore power/showers/toilets/chandlers/milk/bread/access), local facilities (screwfix, food shops, general interest)
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its really not that commercial - to be honest your concern about commercial via private is misplaced. The big harbours are not noisy; small marinas seem to be populated by people who don't know how to stop their halyards clanking, and who leap along the pontoons and cackle away on the way back from the pub! In my opinion none of them are that good for being in a nice town. Largs is probably the nicest of the towns but the marina is not a 2 minute walk to the town (its probably 5-10 minutes from a typical berth just to the gate to the road!)

then day sailing potential and scenery. Cruising, until we know what we are doing, is last.
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this is thoroughly bizarre. Why own a boat if its not to go to sea. Why own a boat in amazing scenery if you just want to park it in a marina looking at other boats? I really think you need to try it before you waste more time prioritising the wrong things.

I know I'd rather £5k on a berth than a static caravan park with a load of tanked up teenagers tromping about at all hours.
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you are just swapping it for tanked up accountants and lawyers, and then the serious sailors arriving/leaving at a time dictated by the moon.

salad said:
Very useful information, thank you. I knew about almanacs and roughly what they contain, but I've not seen a tidal stream map like that before. I was trying to purchase an Admiralty leisure folio, but they have been discontinued, so I think I'll just get a standard chart to begin with and use it for practice. Also seen Imray, but I like how the admiralty charts are presented.

In terms of a passage plan, any sailing plan would do. I've never actually seen one before, even though I know roughly what goes into one. I did the RYA course on essential navigation once, which touched on it, but wouldn't have been as in depth as day skipper will be.
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Get the charts that go with the day skipper theory course. They are artificial areas but intentionally contain all the challenges you should learn. Your passage plan should be appropriate to your boat, crew, experience and conditions. That might be very detailed pilotage notes, contingency plans etc - or it might be we will see where the wind takes us and how busy the anchorage is when we get there. There's no point trying to use someone else's plan - there are two important things (1) you've spent the right amount of time / detail thinking it through; (2) you and your crew know how to interpret it (and adapt it when things change).
penfold said:
For the 'floating caravan' end of things perhaps consider Sandbank/Holy Loch, Port Bannatyne or even Portavadie; extra distance to drive(or a ferry crossing) but the prices are lower and they definitely have better scenery while tied to the pontoon.
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Are those not places to sail to from a more convenient starting point? with the advantage that by going different places you don't get bored of the same food menu etc.
 
ylop said:
its really not that commercial - to be honest your concern about commercial via private is misplaced. The big harbours are not noisy; small marinas seem to be populated by people who don't know how to stop their halyards clanking, and who leap along the pontoons and cackle away on the way back from the pub! In my opinion none of them are that good for being in a nice town. Largs is probably the nicest of the towns but the marina is not a 2 minute walk to the town (its probably 5-10 minutes from a typical berth just to the gate to the road!)

this is thoroughly bizarre. Why own a boat if its not to go to sea. Why own a boat in amazing scenery if you just want to park it in a marina looking at other boats? I really think you need to try it before you waste more time prioritising the wrong things.

you are just swapping it for tanked up accountants and lawyers, and then the serious sailors arriving/leaving at a time dictated by the moon.

Get the charts that go with the day skipper theory course. They are artificial areas but intentionally contain all the challenges you should learn. Your passage plan should be appropriate to your boat, crew, experience and conditions. That might be very detailed pilotage notes, contingency plans etc - or it might be we will see where the wind takes us and how busy the anchorage is when we get there. There's no point trying to use someone else's plan - there are two important things (1) you've spent the right amount of time / detail thinking it through; (2) you and your crew know how to interpret it (and adapt it when things change).
Are those not places to sail to from a more convenient starting point? with the advantage that by going different places you don't get bored of the same food menu etc.
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Well that’s a response!
 
ylop said:
then the serious sailors arriving/leaving at a time dictated by the moon.
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I knew it, the serious ones are all werewolves!

Of course the boat will go to sea, its just that multi day cruising is off the menu until we've gained sufficient experience via day sailing.

PS. Tanked up lawyers and accountants are preferable, as they are potential clients!
 
ylop said:
Are those not places to sail to from a more convenient starting point? with the advantage that by going different places you don't get bored of the same food menu etc.
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Given the OP wrote this they are arguably better for these purposes and not much worse for the others.
salad said:
Shelter and comfort for sleeping aboard is the priority followed by marina facilities (shore power/showers/toilets/chandlers/milk/bread/access), local facilities (screwfix, food shops, general interest) and then day sailing potential and scenery.
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salad said:
Of course the boat will go to sea, its just that multi day cruising is off the menu until we've gained sufficient experience via day sailing.
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What I think you are missing, is that you say by the time you buy the boat you will have done Day Skipper. In that case you will be ready for multiday cruising - not overnight passage making, but hopping from one marina or anchorage to another. Assuming your desire for walk ashore comfort still applies once you've tried it, then a typical long weekend might be:
- Fri - arrive at Largs.
- Sat sail via Lochranza for lunch to Portavadie.
- Sun sail back via Kyles of Bute to Port Banatyne
- Mon sail back to Largs via Milport for Lunch

Next time mix it up by going in the other direction, using Rothesay rather than Port Banatyne, Tarbet rather than Portavadie.
If the weather is great, Campbeltown - Troon - Largs with lunch anchored off Arran is viable. If its not so good then Holy Loch, Rhu (and or JWD or Kip) become more sensible marina hops. Only there for one night? Then pick the marina that's in a sensible direction for the weather and hop there and back. Quality of sleep will probably be more influenced by picking the marina that's most sheltered that night than any commercial stuff! There for a week or more - just add legs in to suit the conditions - you might cross your tracks or end up back in the same marina on nights 3 and 5.

You can make similar "loops" wherever you may be based on the clyde. Once you gain confidence you can add a mooring ball for more destinations, and then anchoring (some people like a night on a ball followed by a night in a marina for showers/supplies etc). But if you are going to based yourself at one marina and go out and return to the same base every day (even if that's only the plan for year 1), I don't see any point driving 5 hrs to the Clyde to do that, but moreover with an inexperienced crew you will end up covering the same area over and over. Theres a degree of hassle involved in getting a boat ready from living mode to sailing mode (its higher with kids!) and it becomes easy to slip into "we aren't going anywhere so lets not bother today". I think that may be even more likely on the Clyde where there will be a lot of OK but not sensational days. Before you know it that boat is never leaving the pontoon, then you start to question if its worth driving all that way to camp in a marina. I've seen this happen even when one of the family is a seasoned sailor who is very much obsessed with getting the power out the wind etc. I can only imagine its more likely where you are lacking confidence and have not even proven to yourself you like sailing.

In your shoes I'd book a skippered charter or a course in the clyde for you and the other half. Ideally with the kid(s) [depending on the age that may be the difference between skippered charter and course], and go test it out for real. It will be expensive, but a lot cheaper than realising you should have bought a MOBO or would rather have a day boat closer to home, or that flotilla's in the med will be better for your needs.
 
penfold said:
Given the OP wrote this they are arguably better for these purposes and not much worse for the others.
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It was the "and then" on the priority that puzzled me. He's planning to drive - so getting to Screwfix or Tesco is never going to be the limiting factor.
 
ylop said:
What I think you are missing, is that you say by the time you buy the boat you will have done Day Skipper. In that case you will be ready for multiday cruising - not overnight passage making, but hopping from one marina or anchorage to another. Assuming your desire for walk ashore comfort still applies once you've tried it, then a typical long weekend might be:
- Fri - arrive at Largs.
- Sat sail via Lochranza for lunch to Portavadie.
- Sun sail back via Kyles of Bute to Port Banatyne
- Mon sail back to Largs via Milport for Lunch

Next time mix it up by going in the other direction, using Rothesay rather than Port Banatyne, Tarbet rather than Portavadie.
If the weather is great, Campbeltown - Troon - Largs with lunch anchored off Arran is viable. If its not so good then Holy Loch, Rhu (and or JWD or Kip) become more sensible marina hops. Only there for one night? Then pick the marina that's in a sensible direction for the weather and hop there and back. Quality of sleep will probably be more influenced by picking the marina that's most sheltered that night than any commercial stuff! There for a week or more - just add legs in to suit the conditions - you might cross your tracks or end up back in the same marina on nights 3 and 5.

You can make similar "loops" wherever you may be based on the clyde. Once you gain confidence you can add a mooring ball for more destinations, and then anchoring (some people like a night on a ball followed by a night in a marina for showers/supplies etc). But if you are going to based yourself at one marina and go out and return to the same base every day (even if that's only the plan for year 1), I don't see any point driving 5 hrs to the Clyde to do that, but moreover with an inexperienced crew you will end up covering the same area over and over. Theres a degree of hassle involved in getting a boat ready from living mode to sailing mode (its higher with kids!) and it becomes easy to slip into "we aren't going anywhere so lets not bother today". I think that may be even more likely on the Clyde where there will be a lot of OK but not sensational days. Before you know it that boat is never leaving the pontoon, then you start to question if its worth driving all that way to camp in a marina. I've seen this happen even when one of the family is a seasoned sailor who is very much obsessed with getting the power out the wind etc. I can only imagine its more likely where you are lacking confidence and have not even proven to yourself you like sailing.

In your shoes I'd book a skippered charter or a course in the clyde for you and the other half. Ideally with the kid(s) [depending on the age that may be the difference between skippered charter and course], and go test it out for real. It will be expensive, but a lot cheaper than realising you should have bought a MOBO or would rather have a day boat closer to home, or that flotilla's in the med will be better for your needs.
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Ahhh, I see what you're driving at now. Sorry, to clarify, by the time we get the boat, we will have done day skipper shore based only. The idea is then to do the practical elements on board our own boat as I have a suitably qualified friend to help. It will still take some time to get our confidence up and establish procedures. Safety being top priority with children on board. By the end of our first season, I hope we will be able to make passages in and around the clyde in safely. If we can achieve that, it would be brilliant. One things for sure, we wont be going through all this to float about in a marina for days on end. Plus, they don't allow fishing! We've had a boat before, albeit just a rib and this has been something we've been wanting to do for ages.

I've had a look at charters in the area and it's quite a chunk of change so on the fence about that a bit.

I did find a great youtube channel the other day, with a guy finding his way around his new boat, on the Clyde.
 
salad said:
One things for sure, we wont be going through all this to float about in a marina for days on end. Plus, they don't allow fishing! We've had a boat before, albeit just a rib and this has been something we've been wanting to do for ages.
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but I'm right that neither of you have actually sailed before? I get why you think they are similar, but I think its like comparing cross country skiing to sledging, or walking the west highland way to running a marathon or rowing to white water rafting. Lots of people who enjoy the first will like the second, but lots of people who do the second will find the first boring and hard work. I really hope you don't. My personal experience is that sailing is great, and my family embrace it. But a look around any marina or boat yard will tell you that lots of people's dreams are not quite the same as their reality. You are trying to pick the marina before you've even worked out the sort of sailing you actually like and which actually fits with your lifestyle.

Sorry, to clarify, by the time we get the boat, we will have done day skipper shore based only. The idea is then to do the practical elements on board our own boat as I have a suitably qualified friend to help.
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I know its not uncommon for people to buy yachts with no practical experience but I think that is a mistake. Doing the course and getting experience helped us work out what we wanted from a boat - it changed enormously from what as a RIB skipper I thought I would want in a yacht to what living on one for a week I actually wanted. Its great you have a friend to help you - but that changes the accommodation requirements to have space for the friend too. It also means your sailing time will be set around their diary. Are they actually an instructor or just experienced? Being able to sail, and being able to teach others to sail is a very different thing.

I've had a look at charters in the area and it's quite a chunk of change so on the fence about that a bit.
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IIRC a week's charter in the Clyde with a skipper will be roughly the same cost as a marina berth for the summer.
what age are the kids?
look I was in your shoes not that long ago (although my kids were a bit older). I had sailed a fair amount, but stopped when kids came along. Better half had tried dinghy sailing and not got on with it. Kids had dinghy sailed and had fun but weren't avid sailers. We had (still have) a small rib. I managed to persuade better half and the kids to do Comp Crew whilst I did Day Skipper practical. We were on a boat with an instructor and just our family so it worked really well for us. It wouldn't be so good with young kids. That has proven to be a really expensive trip - resulting in a path of European charters and now yacht ownership! It could just as easily have been an expensive waste of time.

Why sails not motor?
 
The Clyde is an excellent place for doing that, there are no tidal gates and even the places where overfalls occur are unpleasant rather than dangerous in anything short of a hurricane. Everything is well charted, outlying dangers are few and mostly marked, safe anchorages are plentiful and shelter is never far away.
salad said:
Ahhh, I see what you're driving at now. Sorry, to clarify, by the time we get the boat, we will have done day skipper shore based only. The idea is then to do the practical elements on board our own boat as I have a suitably qualified friend to help. It will still take some time to get our confidence up and establish procedures. Safety being top priority with children on board. By the end of our first season, I hope we will be able to make passages in and around the clyde in safely. If we can achieve that, it would be brilliant.
Click to expand...
 
ylop said:
but I'm right that neither of you have actually sailed before? I get why you think they are similar, but I think its like comparing cross country skiing to sledging, or walking the west highland way to running a marathon or rowing to white water rafting. Lots of people who enjoy the first will like the second, but lots of people who do the second will find the first boring and hard work. I really hope you don't. My personal experience is that sailing is great, and my family embrace it. But a look around any marina or boat yard will tell you that lots of people's dreams are not quite the same as their reality. You are trying to pick the marina before you've even worked out the sort of sailing you actually like and which actually fits with your lifestyle.

I know its not uncommon for people to buy yachts with no practical experience but I think that is a mistake. Doing the course and getting experience helped us work out what we wanted from a boat - it changed enormously from what as a RIB skipper I thought I would want in a yacht to what living on one for a week I actually wanted. Its great you have a friend to help you - but that changes the accommodation requirements to have space for the friend too. It also means your sailing time will be set around their diary. Are they actually an instructor or just experienced? Being able to sail, and being able to teach others to sail is a very different thing.


IIRC a week's charter in the Clyde with a skipper will be roughly the same cost as a marina berth for the summer.
what age are the kids?
look I was in your shoes not that long ago (although my kids were a bit older). I had sailed a fair amount, but stopped when kids came along. Better half had tried dinghy sailing and not got on with it. Kids had dinghy sailed and had fun but weren't avid sailers. We had (still have) a small rib. I managed to persuade better half and the kids to do Comp Crew whilst I did Day Skipper practical. We were on a boat with an instructor and just our family so it worked really well for us. It wouldn't be so good with young kids. That has proven to be a really expensive trip - resulting in a path of European charters and now yacht ownership! It could just as easily have been an expensive waste of time.

Why sails not motor?
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I've sailed toppa's and wayfairers as a kid and enjoyed that but as an adult, just some time on a superyacht some years back as a guest, so nothing really. A mobo would need to be too big to do what we want to do I think, so we discounted that as an option.

My buddy is great at teaching, something I think that comes with supervising a sizeable crew. I think that combined with my own theory courses will be a great combination.

Anything new like this is always a big risk. Even if you charter and enjoy that, it's a different kettle of fish when you're on your own boat in the pouring rain, alone. I've heard plenty of stories, both good and bad, so I think I gained some perspective from that. The trick is, I believe, to not bite off more than you can chew to start with, so whilst we want to find something serviceable for a year or two, like many people do, we would likely end up either changing yacht, or divesting. Depends how it goes and I don't think we will truly know until we're there in the moment.

I'm giving charter serious consideration.
 
salad said:
I knew it, the serious ones are all werewolves!

Of course the boat will go to sea, its just that multi day cruising is off the menu until we've gained sufficient experience via day sailing.

PS. Tanked up lawyers and accountants are preferable, as they are potential clients!
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Which is perfectly fine, as you can do lots of day sailing to gain experience from somewhere like Largs - perhaps anchoring up in one of the many local anchorages for lunch and anchor practice.
And the Clyde tidal streams are minimal so nobody sensible departs at silly hours to catch a tide - unless going direct to Mull of Kintyre
 
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