Marina Cala del Forte

[petem]

Anyone know anything about this new marina? Anyone tempted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXy6yRUeSCs

https://caladelforte-ventimiglia.it/facilities

 

[Portofino]

When I drove past last week it was a building site ........ STILL.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Given that its owned by Monaco Ports and its the next harbour along from Monaco itself, I suspect its going to attract a very well heeled clientele who are happy to pay very high prices to park their boats

Sorry Pete thats another way of saying that its not for the likes of you and me

 

[MapisM]

Sorry Pete thats another way of saying that its not for the likes of you and me

Haha, you can add myself to the club!
Though the stretch of coast between Ventimiglia and Sanremo has a fantastic reputation for its microclimate, I must say.
Bordighera (which is just round the corner from Ventimiglia) is particularly famous, in this respect.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Haha, you can add myself to the club!
Though the stretch of coast between Ventimiglia and Sanremo has a fantastic reputation for its microclimate, I must say.
Bordighera (which is just round the corner from Ventimiglia) is particularly famous, in this respect.

Maybe but that whole stretch of coast from Monaco to Genoa is IMHO one of the least interesting coastlines in the Med in terms of anchorages although towns like San Remo and Imperia are worth visiting. So if you were berthed in Cala del Forte I'm not sure where you'd go for a lunchtime stop other than Villefranche a few miles to the west and thats going to get boring very quickly

 

[mcanderson]

The Ventigmila Port was started before the GFC and went bust. It was then bought out by Monaco Ports for overflow. All the other marinas near Monaco are full and there is a demand for capacity.

I agree with Deleted User about the coast, but would say that east of Monaco is Cap Martin (we enjoyed it two weeks ago) and Menton which isn't too bad a town and has Mirazu which just got it's 3rd * this year. It is well worth a visit!

However west of Monaco you have a number of great spots up to and including Nice.

The big problem for Ventigmilia are the lack of connections. The train is good when it runs, but there are issues. Its a 90 min drive from Nice airport and more to Genoa. Ventigmilia has a great market and some very good places to eat, but as the last town on the Italian Boarder with France on the coast has an issue with illegal migrants.

One to watch rather than one to invest in.

 

[petem]

Given that its owned by Monaco Ports and its the next harbour along from Monaco itself, I suspect its going to attract a very well heeled clientele who are happy to pay very high prices to park their boats

Sorry Pete thats another way of saying that its not for the likes of you and me

You're probably right, but with a rather boring stretch of coastline, a distance from the airport and it not actually being Monaco I do wonder what the demand will be, particularly for more modest craft like my own.

 

[Portofino]

You're probably right, but with a rather boring stretch of coastline, a distance from the airport and it not actually being Monaco I do wonder what the demand will be, particularly for more modest craft like my own.

Low on all counts big and “ modest “
Shane’s touched upon the I word and this time it’s not a boat marque.

It’s actually under an hour from the main airport if the traffic behaves .Thats an issue the E bound part round Nice of the A8 from the airport.
If you are serious about relocating to the CdA then focus on W of the airport .

There are MC plated cars in every marina car park on the CdA , quite a few where I am because of it’s proximity to the private airport ( heli transfers form MC ) .
Infact I see just as many maybe more MC plate cars running back wards and forwards well east towards Genoa .
The owners will either the call boat up or send it on to say Sardinia before flying in / out .
It’s a different type of use age to just nipping down from your apartment and finding a place for a swim ..
Having said that many MC residents just do that hence the Riva infestation.Ventimigalia won’t work for that either .
I think it’s believe it or not more cost effective to keep a super yacht or big boat ( over 125 ft ) in IT .Again some have Heliports nuisance as they are for the rest of us ,

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You're probably right, but with a rather boring stretch of coastline, a distance from the airport and it not actually being Monaco I do wonder what the demand will be, particularly for more modest craft like my own.

There will be a huge demand simply because it is only a short distance from Monaco and because of the general shortage of berths in that area

 

[petem]

Well it can't be that much in demand as there are still berths available!

Anyhow, I'm not particularly interested, although it does look my kind of place.

Saying that, do you think you can get a decent English brekkie with proper sausages and bacon?

 

[Portofino]

There will be a huge demand simply because it is only a short distance from Monaco and because of the general shortage of berths in that area

Imperia has spaces . Just round the next headland E of San Remo and a long lease if want to buy instead of rent .Its old town harbour on the other side is reminiscent of a mini St Tropez in the season .
Another hr E is Marina De Loana , pretty place and plenty of add ons like beach club and pool etc , there’s room there .

http://www.marinadiloano.it/en/

There are two islands a short run either side of this marina for a run out to swim .
Here’s one .

Use it as a base to venture further afield .

We are considering having a sabbatical in IT ,the rent from our Fr berth which we own more than covering costs as it’s basically nearer to CH .
We have been dropping off the autostrada for lunch ,calling in and checking them out .A few more to view .
Additionally any repairs refits are better value like a paint job and reupholster etc while we are there .

Also worth keeping a note in your back pocket in case the French up get 8hitty with red ensign flying Brits over the new PMs Brexit ideas .Sort of shoot the industry in the foot .Or indirectly start scraping the taxation barrel If the EU don’t get there hands on the £39 Bn ?
Currently as you know they leave us alone while boat taxing there own , that might change ?
We find the Italians have a warmer more friendly and helpful attitude compared to the Fr who seem only out for selves.
I can see them falling out with Brussels and resisting boat taxing foreigners, thus scooping up any free business , lets face it IT has the biggest boating industry in the Med to feed .

Agreed the immediate boating is no where near as good along the Liguria.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well it can't be that much in demand as there are still berths available!
?

FWIW I've seen berths for sale on the secondary market which means that somebody has bought a lease and is trying to make a turn on it so there must be demand. No I'm positive you couldnt get an English breakfast there

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We are considering having a sabbatical in IT .

I'm starting to think what we might do after our lease runs out in Antibes at the end of 2021 and marinas across the border in IT are certainly on my radar too. San Remo seems like a nice place with a buzzy town within walking distance. Not sure about Imperia as the marina seems a bit insecure

Not sure about your characterisation of France v Italy. The French seem to understand that the boating industry brings in loadsamoney and its not only Brits who fly the red ensign but also many foreigners who register their boats in the UK so to have a purge on British registered boats could be economically very damaging. In any case the solution is easy; just re-register your boat in Holland for a few hundred Euros. As for the Italians, dont forget it was they who tried to impose a swingeing boat tax on their industry just after the last recession so they're not averse to killing the golden goose. And fuel is more expensive in Italy too

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

As for the Italians, dont forget it was they who tried to impose a swingeing boat tax on their industry just after the last recession so they're not averse to killing the golden goose. And fuel is more expensive in Italy too

It was Monti and a move made to appease the leftist which in Italy has a stronghold on power, and some of his friends outside of Italy to buy stuff at sale price.
It was a big mistake still feeling its effects today. As the industry while going down a few points was still holding itself well up until 2012.

I was in Syracuse, Taormina in both 2011/12 and even though fuel was 1.70 a liter boat traffic in the marina was huge in August.

 

[MapisM]

As for the Italians, dont forget it was they who tried to impose a swingeing boat tax on their industry just after the last recession so they're not averse to killing the golden goose.

True, but if you're saying that as a warning to Brits (or any other non-IT citizens, for that matter), you're way off the mark, M.
We had several different approaches to boat taxes over the years, but all of them, bar none, were actually meant to tax boaters, not boats.
Which makes a huge difference, because obviously IT authorities can't do that towards yourself or anyone else, unless fiscally resident in IT.
In other words, myself and most of my compatriot boaters (not all actually, but that's another story) had to swallow that, but no foreigners did. Ever.

And you know what the funny side of the story is?
That in spite of this, since for some reason these taxes are always a good bait for poor journalists (i.e. the large majority of them), eventually what most foreign boaters understood was that by coming to IT with their boats they could have been ripped off.
When it comes to killing the golden goose, we are able to bring that to an entirely new level....! :ambivalence:

PS: when I said that no foreigners ever paid such tax, it's not because they were able to escape it.
They were non-taxable individuals, so for anyone not fiscally resident in IT it has always been 100% legal to have a boat moored anywhere in IT without paying any taxes, even when Italians had to.

 

[MapisM]

the leftist which in Italy has a stronghold on power

I would argue with that, W.
It doesn't take any sophisticated statistic to realize that among Italians the leftist mentality (so to speak) is well below the average of most if not all EU Countries. I would dare saying that it's even below the average of the US of A.

The election results don't always reflect people's deeper mentality, you know.
And rightly so, imho - at least to some extent.
Some friends of mine kept voting the same party for all their life, and believe it or not I managed to convince them otherwise just by quoting the old statement (from Mark Twain, IIRC) about politicians and diapers..........

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

True, but if you're saying that as a warning to Brits (or any other non-IT citizens, for that matter), you're way off the mark, M.
We had several different approaches to boat taxes over the years, but all of them, bar none, were actually meant to tax boaters, not boats.
Which makes a huge difference, because obviously IT authorities can't do that towards yourself or anyone else, unless fiscally resident in IT.
In other words, myself and most of my compatriot boaters (not all actually, but that's another story) had to swallow that, but no foreigners did. Ever.

Yes I was well aware of that because at the time I was cruising my boat in the Adriatic and wintering it in Monfalcone. I never would have gone there if I had thought I was going to be subject to an Italian boat tax! I did witness how the tax affected the boating industry in Italy though. I overwintered in Monfalcone 3 yrs running and every year the activity in the yard was less and the staff complained more about lack of work which saddened me

My point was this though. If an Italian govt can be stupid enough to bring in a tax which affects Italian boaters and their own domestic industry then in the future they might just dream up a tax which affects foreign boaters too. Dont forget I have first hand experience of this in Majorca where I got caught by the Spanish matriculation tax which was originally a domestic only tax but which the Balearic authorities decided they could apply to foreign boaters too. I dont want to repeat that experience

 

[MapisM]

My point was this though. If an Italian govt can be stupid enough to bring in a tax which affects Italian boaters and their own domestic industry then in the future they might just dream up a tax which affects foreign boaters too.

Well, I would never dare predicting the future level of stupidity that any government can reach, of course.
Anywhere in the world, btw: in recent years, if such stupidity contest existed, I don't think IT would have stood a chance to win it...

That's why I prefer to stick to history, which is what I reported in my previous post.
Sure, history doesn't grant that it will repeat itself in the future, but I think that knowing a bit of it is useful anyway.
In fact, interestingly, if you check out the history of sovereign defaults, Spain is right at the top of such ranking, with no less than 18 occurences in the last 6 centuries, vs. "only" 5 of the UK and 6 of the US.
Even Argentina and Ecuador (9 and 11 respectively) can't compete with the performance of Spain, go figure.

Oh, and just in case I made you curious, IT shines for its total absence from such list. Ever.
Sometimes I even wonder if this isn't something to be ashamed of, based on the thoughts of all those sharp and sophisticated people at the big three CRAs.
I mean, UK, US and Spain are actually in very good company, together with Germany, France, Austria, Sweden, Russia, Japan, China, India, and many others.
Maybe belonging to a very small minority together with Norway, Finland, Belgium and Switzerland isn't such a good thing... But, hey-ho!

 

[PEJ]

A 20m x 5.3m berth is 653,000 Euros for a 40 year term. Service charges 8,000 Euros per year.

Rental for a year appears to be about 32,000 Euros which would seem to make it cheaper than my slightly smaller berth in Cala D'Or

Is that good? I have no idea what SoF leases / rentals are like.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A 20m x 5.3m berth is 653,000 Euros for a 40 year term. Service charges 8,000 Euros per year.

Rental for a year appears to be about 32,000 Euros which would seem to make it cheaper than my slightly smaller berth in Cala D'Or

Is that good? I have no idea what SoF leases / rentals are like.

The lease cost is in the same ballpark as Antibes although the service charges and annual rental charges are higher