Marina 5% Private Sale Commission

[squadron2007]

I am reasonably new to boating and would like to ask the advice and opinion of other forum members.

The boatyard where I currently keep my craft has without any warning or consultation has made some changes to their business terms.

The revised terms state that they operate a brokerage service and have “sole selling rights” of all craft either moored or stored on their premises. They reserve the right to charge a 5% commission on the selling price of any vessel that changes ownership under a private sale whilst moored or stored on their premises. Further, no craft sold will retain a mooring unless this is agreed at the time of a sale.

Under the previous terms this “private sale” commission was only 1%, so at 5%, this represents a pretty significant increase.

As I had hoped to upgrade to a larger boat during the season and would have looked at a part exchange / upgrade through the manufacturer or one of their appointed main dealers, these new charges are of some concern.

A modest brokerage facility is available and whilst I am hopeful that this will be upgraded, they don’t appear to market either themselves or any sales craft particularly successfully.

I wonder what percentage other yards charge for private sales and whether anyone could advise if this particular action is legally enforceable?

 

[brianrunyard]

Tell them you sold it for £5 and give them 25p.
Presumably you want to retain the mooring for the new boat so the "no craft sold will retain a mooring" doesn't apply, you don't want the mooring to stay with the boat.
Alternatively take your boat out for a "2 week cruise" and return with the new one, the boat is not sold whilst moored on their premises.

 

[alan17]

Can't answer your question but would be interested to know your location.

 

[tcm]

Um yes, they can change terms provided that the new terms only apply after renewal.

I am guessing it is port solent, and 1% was pretty unpopular, but anyway, whoever it is sounds as tho they are simply taking over the brokerage, and 5% isn't too awful.

As you have described, though, the text sounds as though you could advertise the boat but provided that the sale took place whilst you were moored elsewhere, then no 5%.

For a part exchange, their contract again would fall down if a contract was drawn up on the basis of an exchange value of £5 for your boat. However, there are vat imnplications (cos the new boat vat is minimised innit?) so the vendor might not be very amenable to the idea. But it cold help minimise.

Another idea is therefore that you sell you boat to a third party (like your or friend) for the fiver cheap and they then do the part exchange, whilst the bertyhing contract is you name. Lok at the detail and work on that text cos that is all they will have and there won't be any "oh look obviously" because this isnt' a common contract.

Although legally enforceable you have to make it so it just isn't worth for them to sue.

Problem of course is that they won't be very keen to help renew the mooring...



Modt if not all contracts are "legally enforceable" but the way to do that is to get a lawyer and go to Court and if their contract is a bit rubbish there's a good chance the lawyer will also be rubbish, and hence they'll lose.

 

[Will33]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

We sell boats from a number of marinas and with the exception of a very small handful a 1% fee is standard which we generally pay the out of our commission on customers boats we sell.

I have felt for a long term the sole broker rules as well as other sole agency rights at marinas has to be an infringement of European competition policy but it is going to take someone with a far bigger bank balance than me to challenge it in the courts!

So 5% on a private sale seems a bit of a rip off in my book.

Will

 

[Nautorius]

Yes,

Marinas can do this. I once got shafted with this as well. Our Marina was 2%. I said 'no way' they said 'no berth next year'. We agreed 1% of the difference in price ie. cash added to PX. Best to do a deal before hand if you are swopping, and base it on the PX price difference. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It is Supply and Demand of berths you see, and they have you by the balls!

This is, afterall, boating so no chance of it being fair/reasonable/decent.

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[squadron2007]

Thank you all for your prompt responses.

Unfortunately the marina terms state that they will estimate the selling price where it is unknown (or totally unrealistic) so this unfortunately puts paid to saying that it was sold for a silly price.

I believe that when an annual mooring has been allocated to the boat, the 5% fee will be payable even if the craft is sold whilst away on a fortnights cruise.

I didn’t want to identify the exact location at this stage but suffice it to say it is not a heavily populated boating area.

Thanks

 

[Nick_H]

I presume there's no other suitable marina to move to? If there is then obviously sell your boat the day after you tell them you don't want a berth any more. The marinas usually get away with this theft because people are desperate to keep a berth, but it is your duty to avoid paying the blood sucking weasels one penny more than you have to.

The only good thing to know is these things nearly always backfire on the marina. People hate being ripped off so they find a way round it and the marina gets no custom at all. At a certain south coast marina the contract obliges you to use them for maintenance, but its amazing how often peoples boats break down when they're away from the marina and need a full service to get them going again /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Someone said there is a test case in progress somewhere, 'cos it clearly breaches competition rules, but don't know the details

 

[rubberduck]

As a "CONSUMER" i think you could call in trading standards as this would appear to be restrictive practice. Legally complicated so most trading standard staff not fully aware , so speak to someone senior. Let me know outcome as have several high ranking legal contacts. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifp.s.Ask them if their terms are approved by the office of fair trading !

 

[epervier]

Having never been a customer of a uk marina, am I reading this correctly,
you pay a marina for a mooring, and if you sell your boat they ask for 5% of what you sell it for?

 

[Nautorius]

OK,

I got ripped off on the first boat. For the second boat I got my dad to register as a berth holder (required and he had a berth as well). Then I cancelled my berth and he got his new berth (in my old berth). I then brought in the new boat and served change of ownership papers after berth paid for year. Stuffed them up good and took them 3 months to realise. Mind you that was Windermere [money grabbing gits] Marina.! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Always a way around if you can get another berth [just in case it goes pear shape]

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Sammo]

5% is far to much.
My present boatyard takes 1% if you sell private and 6% if they sell it for you, also
If you marry while your boat is there your new wife is taken by the yard owner for the first two nights of the honeymoon… likewise if you buy a new car then he is entitled to use it for two weeks every year, unless you lease the car then you have to pay cash in kind…..All work on your boat has to be carried out by the yard who reserve the right to employ substandard labour and whenever any work is carried out on your home the boatyard is entitled to a one off payment of 16% of the final bill + vat.
The mooring itself is calculated as 25% of the current value of your primary residence per annum and the boatyard expects you to provide a valuation at least 3 weeks before the renewal date, at your own cost.

I suppose I’m just very lucky to be in a boatyard and not in one of the big rip off marinas.



………..

 

[thailand69]

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[squadron2007]

Thanks again for so much interest and your useful replies.

Having seen the response, and not really knowing enough about the situation in marinas elsewhere I was hoping to try and gauge a considered opinion of whether this 5% Private Sale commission is either: a bit high but pretty much the norm or far enough from the average that perhaps the marina management should be approached with a view to negotiation as it is a privately owned concern.

Any further thoughts based on personal experience would be most welcome.

Thanks.

 

[thailand69]

Go on, raise your Marinas charge to 10%
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bobgosling]

Send them a bill for "Enhancing their Marina's environment by the addition of your beautiful yacht" and see if they will pay it.

 

[fireball]

I think the phrase "Money Grabbing Gits" sums it up nicely.

So - you pay for a berth to keep your boat in - if on the south coast then this is already loaded up as it is thought to be a prime location.
You sell your boat (via whatever means other than through the marina) probably so you can upgrade to a larger boat and pay them more money for the longer length - and they want to take even more money from you. Jeeze!

I was unaware of the 1% "normal" fee paid to marinas as mentioned above - even this is extortionate.

I can understand the berth not being transferred with the sale of a vessel - as that would make it easy for ppl to queue jump if there are waiting lists...

I'm glad we're not berthed in a marina!!

 

[Gludy]

I agree fireball - any amount is a rip off.
Imagine paying over £50,000 for selling a £1m boat yourself!!!

 

[fireball]

I thought I made you a viable offer - a Walkerbay 10 complete with Oars and a 2hp 4 stroke .... straight swap!

Anyway - whats with the short posts?! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Gludy]

I am very sorry fireball .... I somehow let that incredible offer slip my mind.
There is nothing short about my posts - its just your perception that has changed /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif