Marchioness, MCA proposals not yet enacted?

[lw395]

I studied Nautical Science at University ( pre HoFE disaster) and we were set a assignment of calculating the stability of various types of vessel. No one in the class could produce a calculation for a roll on roll off ferry that met the minimum safety regulations because of the open decks and the results of free surface effect ( technical definition - water sloshing around ).

Our professor confirmed that our calculations were correct. A ro-ro Ferry was given an exemption from the regulations and a only few inches of water ingress would cause it to capsize. Shocking negligence by the regulatory bodies in my opinion.

Yet UK RoRo ferries have a pretty good safety record.

 

[Seajet]

Yet UK RoRo ferries have a pretty good safety record.

Well they only have short distances to go, mostly in relative shelter compared to somewhere like the Atlantic or Arctics , and they call off sailings when it's obviously too dodgy a forecast.

I've been on one of Herald Of Free Enterprises' sisterships when we drifted up and down the Channel with a main propulsion failure, and friends report toe curler trips on ferries with deckchairs washed away, I'm thinking the real culprit is complacency setting in on routine trips.

 

[RupertW]

Yet UK RoRo ferries have a pretty good safety record.

Indeed

1970 - nobody died
1971 - nobody died
1972 - nobody died
1973 - nobody died
1974 - nobody died
1975 - nobody died
1976 - nobody died
1977 - nobody died
1978 - nobody died
1979 - nobody died
1980 - nobody died
1981 - nobody died
1982 - nobody died
1983 - nobody died
1984 - nobody died
1985 - nobody died
1986 - nobody died
1987 - some people died
1988 - nobody died
1989 - nobody died
1990 - nobody died
1991 - nobody died
Etc


So it’s a bit unfair to single out one year and insist on changing things

 

[Seajet]

Would you book your loved ones on a system which said " well most of them make it "

 

[Kukri]

Indeed

1970 - nobody died
1971 - nobody died
1972 - nobody died
1973 - nobody died
1974 - nobody died
1975 - nobody died
1976 - nobody died
1977 - nobody died
1978 - nobody died
1979 - nobody died
1980 - nobody died
1981 - nobody died
1982 - 6 people died
1983 - nobody died
1984 - nobody died
1985 - nobody died
1986 - nobody died
1987 - 193 people died
1988 - nobody died
1989 - nobody died
1990 - nobody died
1991 - nobody died
Etc


So it’s a bit unfair to single out one year and insist on changing things

You have omitted the sinking of the EUROPEAN GATEWAY with the loss of six lives, in 1982.

The ANTRIM PRINCESS caught fire in 1983 and all her passengers were airlifted to safety; no lives lost but not much of a recommendation.

Going further back the PRINCESS VICTORIA was lost with 133 lives in 1953

 

[bikedaft]

And some; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_roll-on/roll-off_vessel_accidents

 

[Kukri]

We could add the MOBY PRINCE in 1991 - 140 dead to the non- British list.

But then we could add the DONA PAZ and another four thousand.

 

[bikedaft]

Ps the purpose of this post originally was not to slag off either roro's nor historic vessels - but more to bring up the point that it would be very difficult to legislate fir eg bulkheads, even for new vessels, as roro ferries are so convenient etc

 

[lw395]

Would you book your loved ones on a system which said " well most of them make it "

For a bit of context, there's about 19 million UK ferry passenger trips a year.
You're probably more likely to die of boredom or obesity than the ferry sinking.

 

[Kukri]

I think the ‘problem’ with ro ro ferries has been that they developed from train ferries. Train ferries are as safe as houses because they have the train deck where the weather deck would be anyway. Over time ro ro ferries moved the weather deck lower and lower... although the PRINCESS VICTORIA showed the problems.

There are now quite elaborate regulations about longitudinal bulkheads to stop free surface effect, much bigger scuppers on the car deck and better stability.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The enquiry found that very very few people would have survived had the ferry gone over in deep water, and not capsized on to a sandbank, a bit like Costa Concordia where loss of life would have been far greater had the ship carried on in to deep water after being holed.

One of the reassuring things about crossing from North Shields to IJmuiden in a storm is that for almost all of the route there is nowhere near enough water for her to sink. Rolling over would be a bit of a bummer, though, if you were on the "down" side.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I studied Nautical Science at University ( pre HoFE disaster) and we were set a assignment of calculating the stability of various types of vessel. No one in the class could produce a calculation for a roll on roll off ferry that met the minimum safety regulations because of the open decks and the results of free surface effect ( technical definition - water sloshing around ).

Our professor confirmed that our calculations were correct. A ro-ro Ferry was given an exemption from the regulations and a only few inches of water ingress would cause it to capsize. Shocking negligence by the regulatory bodies in my opinion.

It's been like that since the Princess Victoria. Everybody knows they are death traps but money talks.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Would you book your loved ones on a system which said " well most of them make it "

Is this becoming a Clipper Ventures thread?

 

[Stemar]

Would you book your loved ones on a system which said " well most of them make it "

Actually, Yes.

Mainly because there's no other kind. The most dangerous part of any ferry crossing from the UK, assuming you survive the M25, is when you get to the other side and have to start driving on the wrong side of the road.

Given the number of times car ferries find themselves wandering around outside Dover 'cos it's too windy to go in (steady 50 kts IIRC), and how many of those ferries have problems, I reckon they fall a bit short on death trap status.