Manual lifejackets. Am I missing something?

[Colin_S]

This may be a real stupid question but what's the reasoning behind manual lifejackets?
The only reason I can think of for wearing one is if you think there's a slim chance of falling in without taking a smack round the ear from the boom or without hitting your head on the way over the side plus you figure getting back on board will be straight forward and therefore want to save the cost of a rearming kit. Otherwise I figure they are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot.
I suppose someone doing a bit of deck work in rough conditions may want a manual jacket so as to avoid accidental inflation but with the advent of the hammer system that should now not be an issue and rough conditions are the ones more likely to lead to a MOB situation with possible injuries, n'est pas?
So, am I missing something?

 

[Malcb]

If I'm on a safety boat sometimes I will either wear a bouyancy aid or a manual life jacket. If I have to go into the water to help right a capsized boat then I don't want my lifejacket automatically inflating.

 

[Colin_S]

From my jetskiing days I've got a buoyancy aid so can see where you're coming from there. I'm thinking more along the lines of offshore sailing though and have met a few people who wear a manual jacket for this.

 

[Frontier]

Your post prompted me to think did I want to wear the auto or the manual next time.

I always thought I needed auto, but the other day I thought, what if I was trapped below and she was full of water maybe up side down, I wouldn't want the auto going off as I would have to take it off. I dont think I would manage it in the dark in time. Although simple I bet its not easy to undo the clip in emergency, and if you did could you get out with the jacket, probably not so you might make it out just to drown from having no jacket. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Sui Generis]

malcb has a very important point, which a lot of people miss.

For offshore sailing, I suspect that it's just a case of inertia and ignorance of technology. You mention working the foredeck and modern lifejackets - my case in point.

If you have a perfectly good manual lifejacket, who is going to spend another XX quiddlies replacing it with an automatic - until it needs replacing.

On my boat, all lifejackets are automatic.

But I don't have sprayhoods, which I should have.

Yet.

 

[Colin_S]

As I was typing the original post I was wondering about problems with auto jackets and the fact that the Hammer (sp?) system is fairly new and that perhaps this is the reason for so many manual ones.

 

[Ships_Cat]

The main reason for manual jackets is that you may want to go into the water and not want it to inflate - eg swimming to a liferaft or even climbing/lifted into one or onto a rescue vessel are all made more difficult (in some cases much more) with an inflated jacket. Or as another has pointed out, getting out from an upturned vessel (I have been involved in an investigation where the lifejacket trapped a person in that circumstance and they drowned and there are other cases as well).

Their only disadvantage is that they don't inflate if you are unconcious.

In the end it is a personal choice and mine has always been to go manual. But there again I was brought up around the sea and sailing dinghies so falling in the water is not a panic situation for me - and after 50+ years I have never fallen off a powerboat or keelboat, and the objective being to be carefull enuff never to do so.

A thing that interests me is all the paraphenalia UK forumites seem to think should be carried around on the lifejacket and otherwise worn when go sailing. Not sure how they manage to get around with it all but there again I suppose part of the attraction of many pursuits is the being seen in all the dressed up gear for it.

John

 

[LadyInBed]

I have a manual life jacket but I seldom wear it.
I have a harness that I wear and clip on quite often.

 

[BrendanS]

If you have a pack of mini flares and pen in a small case in your lifejacket, no one will ever know, so that sort of thing is not really dressing up to be the part.

I carry those, and also a waterproof handheld vhf with a mike which attaches to the collar of the life jacket. Not a dressing up thing, it's just that in a high speed small mobo, it's bloody difficult to see the controls on a fixed vhf, never mind hear it, and you stand a good chance of knocking yourself unconcious if you bend over to look at it at speed.

Function over form sometimes

 

[alex_rogers]

I suspect that the statistics are the opposite of what you assume - the number of people who are hit by the boom and knocked unconscious must be tiny compared to the number who miss their step or fall out of their dinghy on the way back from the pub. If it is the way you suggest, then surely crash helmets and harnesses would be a more effective safety measure.

 

[Ships_Cat]

You are correct. I have posted the statistics for drownings off decked yachts and decked MoBos over 7m and the chances of drowning are virtually non existant.

Especially for decked MoBo's where here in NZ over 20 years 2 drowned and off keelboats 16 drowned. A number of the keelboat drownings I am personally familair with and those were all off race boats - in recent years I only know of one that was off a cruising boat and that was a single hander for who a lifejacket may have just prolonged the agony.

That despite here virtually NO ONE wears lifejackets on such decked boats. Much smaller population than UK here but that does not make any difference to the risk - in fact risk probably higher here because of the very high take up of boating activities.

Always surprises me to read on these forums the extraordinary (to me anyway) lengths to ensure survival after falling in that some take when they are probably unconcerned about things which are of much greater risk in their lives. Must dampen the enjoyment of sailing worrying about drowning all the time - most I know mostly concentrate on not ending up in the water in the first place.

Do people really go in for lifejackets, thigh straps, face protection, etc, etc to sail around the Solent - seems so reading these forums?

John

 

[Guest]

I have to admit that I have 2 manuals + 2 Buoyancy jobs on board. They are rarely worn......

I chose manual after long and hard thought ... I can see advantages more for an auto jacket than a manual, but then because I spend so little time on my UK boat - plumped for the economics. I know - I'm now going to be blasted for economic over safety isue.

Thinking about the inflation of auto inside a boat ... I'm not familiar with later jackets - but most I saw before were auto inflated once immersed BELOW surface - not on contact. So wouldn't auto-inflate be possible - not certain in a cpasized / upturned hull ?

My wife likes to wear hers when fully kitted out........ >

but says it spoils the bikini line when the suns out .............>

Sorry about the humour ..... but I think sometimes that we are a little too serious .... I agree that safety is an important issue and cannot be ignored, but there is also a sensible level of awareness before it starts to get to paranoia ..... IMHO.

Little bit of interest - Merchant ships have for years carried Lifejackets based on the old Kapok design. These have been proven to be dangerous in certain circumstances and not so great at turning bodies over etc. The inflatable sort are frowned upon and only generally seen for work-boats etc. as EXTRA to ships required inventory - the Kapok style being official. It is basically only Airlines through necessity to have compact system that are officially Inflatable style. The other significant matter is that Airline jackets are MANUAL ...

Just a thought.

 

[Woodentop]

You are missing something. Why wear a lifejacket ? Why not a harness ?

A lifejacket is only useful AFTER you have fallen off the boat, which is why I use a harness and stay on the boat.

Think of a harness as contraception and a lifejacket as abortion.

 

[Ships_Cat]

I can understand your point Brendan 'cos yr into F10 and all that stuff. Not a gentle cruise around the local quarry pond /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[Ships_Cat]

Sorry about the humour ..... but I think sometimes that we are a little too serious .... I agree that safety is an important issue and cannot be ignored, but there is also a sensible level of awareness before it starts to get to paranoia ..... IMHO.

Oh my goodness Nigel, I have a soulmate in this.

In fact I enjoy looking at your boat because appears from photographs quite simply fitted out (putting aside the caravan ware /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

A while back a HR appeared in our marina and my goodness it had every bit of kit under the sun glued all over it. Sissy rails for this, and sissy rails for that, little boxes on deck for storing this that and the other thing, solar panels all adjustable to the angle of the dangle, wind generator, spare anchors and kedges hanging on the pushpit, crew all in wet weather gear on a calm summers day and all wearing lifejackets to go to the fuel dock or sumfing, all never ending as if drowning was definitely on the schedule. One guess which country that boat comes from?

So despite an occasional (friendly) jibe at the camping stuff Nigel is a breathe of fresh air to see a boat and crew that puts the risk in perspective (and quite a nice perspective at that judging from the photos /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

John

 

[iangrant]

Didn't see one person in the west indies with a life jacket, indeed it's easy to slip into forgetting about them when it's warm!

You get so used to plunging in anyway the fear of falling in goes away!

Back here people seem to wear them all the time.

for me the realistic time for a lifejacket is when single handed, at night, rough weather but more as a clip on function. Non swimmers and anyone who wants to wear one.

The best I saw was in St Vasst. The MBM rally all wore their life jackets moving their flybridge beasts from the pontoons to the fuel jetty. In the marina!

Worst case on a regular basis - toddlers in marinas without one! I had a case in point in East Cowes when my mates lad tripped and fell in off the pontoon, thank God the boat rule was lifejackets at all times for the kids - he would have drowned, thanks crewsaver the auto jacket went off and we plucked him straight out.

My lifejackets are all manual with harness (essential) other than the kids one which are by default with harness auto.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Guest]

When we visit ships - we have to put on hard-hats ... Bonk ! Bonk ! as we hit our heads on overhead pipes etc.
Take em off ... rarely hit anything. I have a theory that the human body / mind has its onw inbuilt gauge of height / width etc. Upset it by adding just a few inches here and there and Bonk Bonk ! Bit like body clock waking you up just before the alarm clock.

Seriously - I do not have loads of stuff on board. Those who know me have commented in past about my scorn for various so-called "wonders" .... MOB recovery stuff springs to mind - if you have ever had to deal with MOB in real situation ......... most of it is cosmetic rubbish and in fact some can actually make it harder ... while people try to figure out what to do with it. KISS - is my principle.

And I wholly agree - staying on the boat is the important factor - LJ after falling of is second.

Meowwwwwwwwwwww !!

 

[Talbot]

I prefer to be in charge of when my lifejacket inflates. I dont have a low boom, so the chance of being knocked by it are pretty low.

 

[Sea Devil]

I find my self yet again in agreement with John... All this life jacket business is out of touch with reality... There is a possible reason for wearing one when transferring long distance from an anchorage to the shore or vv in really bad conditions - otherwise they are best kept in a locker for use when the mast dissapears under the water.

Now safety harnesses, jack stays, strong clip on points are another matter - but hardly anybody bothers with them....

Michael

 

[safari5]

Agree about the paranoia. However, I now wear a lifejacket 95% of the time for the following reasons:

1. It would be a real bummer to drown when having a lifejacket would have saved you. More so if you'd be leaving your young kids fatherless.

2. A significant proportion of my MOB drills don't go as smoothly as planned.

3. If you're going to wear a lifejacket, the best time to put it on is as you set off, rather than when you suddenly need to put in a reef or do an urgent piece of foredeck work in the open sea.

4. They're not really that inconvenient to wear. If you're going to be putting on a harness, why not have a small sausage of inflatable material around your neck.