Mantus M2 vid vs Delta

[Neeves]

I know some think there are too many anchor threads and others think I post threads because I'm financially involved in the subject of my threads.

Get real and get a life.

If you ever anchor on a hard beach with the tide out you know what to use (or not)

Delta seems an odd choice with which to compare, They have another comparison with a Lewmar Claw. I have not seen it - but I can predict the results - I'm prescient

Jonathan

 

[Pete7]

"I know some think there are too many anchor threads"

Correct

"others think I post threads because I'm financially involved in the subject of my threads"

You're a boating juno aren't you?

"Get real and get a life"

Steady ? I don't need someone telling me to "get a life" on one of my favourite forums.

If you ever anchor on a hard beach with the tide out you know what to use (or not)

You are on the wrong forum. This is a boating forum, if you want to discuss anchoring on land I suggest you find an off road forum were they use anchors for recovery.

 

[zoidberg]

I've been following these threads for what seems like a lifetime.....
Tidying around, I realise I now have enough anchors of different styles to conduct my very own 'comparative tests'. Now, is anyone else in a similar position?
How about a competitive comparative test....?

 

[Neeves]

"I know some think there are too many anchor threads"
Correct
At least I got something right!
If you ever anchor on a hard beach with the tide out you know what to use (or not)
You are on the wrong forum. This is a boating forum, if you want to discuss anchoring on land I suggest you find an off road forum were they use anchors for recovery.
I do like someone with a bit of humour

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I'm on the Mantus mail list - I'm guessing many do not enjoy this luxury - I simply make available information that I think others might enjoy having access.

I do sympathise with Pete's comment that there are 'a lot' of anchor threads (and I have started more than my fair share ). If we go back to, say the year 2,000 - we had Spade, Fortress, Delta, Bruce, CQR and Danforth + some variants, Brittany, Bugel. Since then some anchors that were introduced have sunk without trace but we still have these old stalwarts (some of which continue to provide sterling service) plus a whole lot of new entrants. We are spoilt for choice and new entrants continue to crowd the market place.

A question might be - do we need yet another new anchor?

I'd have to say maybe its time for another technical leap forward (Fortress might have offered a development with their use of Aluminium and Spade did offer a revolutionary new design) - but some of the new entrants don't actually appear to offer anything that is 'new'.

Reading current threads one point that is made is that some, many?, of the entrants (since 2000) are expensive. Some anchors are made in 'the west' Fortress still make in America from American aluminium, extruded in America, anodised in America and then further fabricated by Fortress in their Florida factory. Anchor Right fabricate in Australia from Australian steel and galvanise in Australia. Manson still make in New Zealand. and Knox are made in Scotland. Many of the other models on the market are made in China and I always understood (correct me if I am wrong) that choice was made because it is cheaper to make there. The Kobra and Delta are both made in China as is Mantus and Rocna - costs of steel in China, fabrication costs are all similar so the factory gate costs should be similar for Kobra, Mantus, Rocna or Delta. I don't check costs - it would be pointless as I see only Oz prices - but if you make a comparison - the differences are primarily margin or incompetence.

But many of the anchor threads are initiated because there is, yet, another new anchor on the market and I have had a couple of threads on the Mantus M2 and (2?) threads on Viking (refreshingly made in a 'new' location - Ukraine). The plethora of new models (recalling we still have the new Lewmar models to be unveiled) suggests to me there is money in anchors - unless all these manufacturers are altruistic and want us to have a greater choice.

My conclusion is - there is money in it.

I did make the comment on price - the prices (of those made in a low cost base location) are developed by what the market, i.e. us, are willing to pay. and maybe what the 'western' made models need to stay solvent.

I also mentioned there seemed little new in any of the new anchors - I was primarily thinking of technical innovation - but a technically advanced anchor (or comparably technically excellent) at a low price would hit the right note with me

The trick is getting their anchor to the top of the Google hit list - and I am possibly guilty of contributing to the data base. The more times their model is mentioned the better chance they have of making sales.


But don't let my musings distract anyone from commenting on the M2

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

What do you mean, too many anchor threads?

How else are those of us who are subject to UK weather expected to while away the winter?

 

[coopec]

I was going to ask why the Fortress anchor wasn't included in the test but I'll make that the subject of a new anchor thread.

I have to agree with you regarding price. From what I can see Rocna will charge whatever the market will bare and people are happy to pay it because they believe it is best. Here is another test and look where Rocna comes!

Mud isn't created equal, and no one anchor is best.

 

[NormanS]

With reference to testing on a beach when the tide is out, isn't that precisely what John Knox did? I never anchor that way.

 

[Pete7]

"I'm on the Mantus mail list"
Johnathan, seriously? after what you have said about them

You really need to get a life if all you do is read advertising blurb, suggest you go sailing. Its bloody cold and windy in the UK at the moment, what's your excuse?

"But many of the anchor threads are initiated because there is, yet, another new anchor on the market"

Au contraire, it's because you keep starting them.

"My conclusion is - there is money in it."

No there isn't. Walk around any UK marina and there is still a plethora of CQRs to be seen. Perhaps there should be a PX scrappage scheme for old CQRs for a new Mantus. The only problem with this approach is its a one time purchase for the life of the boat, its not like they wear out or anything so need replacing.

BTW do you have a Mantus or have used one long term? It would be poor form to continually criticize something you haven't tested.

Pete

 

[Neeves]

With reference to testing on a beach when the tide is out, isn't that precisely what John Knox did? I never anchor that way.

Norman

I don't recall the name of the beach and have never seen it (in fact never been to a beach at all on that side), but it was opposite, roughly, where you lived some of your formative years. You tested in the intertidal zone in the pools left when the tide went out.

We actually do anchor that way, very occasionally, - but when the tide is out the anchors are a bit of a waste of time - but jolly useful if you want to say put for a couple of tides.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

Norman

I don't recall the name of the beach and have never seen it (in fact never been to a beach at all on that side), but it was opposite, roughly, where you lived some of your formative years. You tested in the intertidal zone in the pools left when the tide went out.

We actually do anchor that way, very occasionally, - but when the tide is out the anchors are a bit of a waste of time - but jolly useful if you want to say put for a couple of tides.

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, I still live in the same place. It wasn't me who was testing anchors on the beach. It was John Knox. Anyway, as has already been suggested, shouldn't you be out sailing? Our excuse is that it's the middle of winter, it's bblowing a hoolie, and snowing like crazy.

 

[Neeves]

I'm on the Mantus mail list
Johnathan, seriously? after what you have said about them

You really need to get a life if all you do is read advertising blurb, suggest you go sailing. Bottom line is once any anchor hits the sea bed you can't tell what sort it is. Some folk worry too much.

Pete,

I continue to marvel that my email address is on the list - maybe because I speak the truth they value my comments It is nice to be appreciated. It makes my chosen life so much more gratifying that people are big enough not to bear grudges. Previously I was not so sure after YM published the bendy shank article and I did wish New Zealand was not quite so close - but I'm older now and worry less.

However back on theme - the opinions of one's peers is invaluable and I wondered what people might think of the vid - I reserve comment.

I would have gone sailing but we have just had over 150mm of rain in one day (the last similar rainfall was 30 years ago), the accompanying swells removed 25m of nearby beaches and we have a dying cyclone approaching tomorrow. There is always a silver lining - most of the fires have been extinguished and those that are still burning will be put out tomorrow (by the rain associated with the cyclone).

Jonathan

Coopec - anchors are a compromise - there is no perfect anchor for all seabeds. The results are precisely the reason we carry a FX37 - a recommended sized Fortress, a FX23, is too small and we do have a number of locations with slimy mud bottoms. But in harder bottoms the FX37 is impossible set such that the stock is buried so in a change of tide/wind our chain could trip it - so we also carry a FX16 (both assembled).

 

[RichardS]

I know some think there are too many anchor threads and others think I post threads because I'm financially involved in the subject of my threads.

Get real and get a life.

If you ever anchor on a hard beach with the tide out you know what to use (or not)

Delta seems an odd choice with which to compare, They have another comparison with a Lewmar Claw. I have not seen it - but I can predict the results - I'm prescient

Jonathan

The Delta is a plough anchor so it's no surprise that it does exactly that.

Richard

 

[RupertW]

The Delta is a plough anchor so it's no surprise that it does exactly that.

Richard

But once ploughed a couple of metres it stays there solidly in the conditions I’ve encountered so far.

 

[Bobc]

But once ploughed a couple of metres it stays there solidly in the conditions I’ve encountered so far.

Absolutely. I've had a Delta on my boat for 17 years, and never dragged, even in a hurricane. So long as you understand how to set them, they are rock solid.

 

[sailaboutvic]

looking forward to this thread comes to a end so another anchor / anchoring thread can be started by someone.
let be honest guys looking at the list of member who replied to this thread and the others thread .
nearly all experiences sailor with plenty of miles under their belt .
Rupert, Pete, Norman, Richard , little sister, Bobc just to mention a few,
don't worry Jonathan haven't forgotten you
have any of us leaned any thing new , I have to hold my hands up I haven't and if others feel the same what are we debating ?
all we do is kick the can round and round
disagree argue then wait for the thread to die and wait for a new one to start .
I admin anchors/anchoring is some thing we all take a interest in and yes if I see a thread that has anchor in the heading I will open it read down 20 or 30 posting and its the same old stuff.
its really getting boring , yawwwwwwwwwww
if some thing new turns up let debate it but lets not keep going around the same old stuff.

 

[RupertW]

looking forward to this thread comes to a end so another anchor / anchoring thread can be started by someone.
let be honest guys looking at the list of member who replied to this thread and the others thread .
nearly all experiences sailor with plenty of miles under their belt .
Rupert, Pete, Norman, Richard , little sister, Bobc just to mention a few,
don't worry Jonathan haven't forgotten you
have any of us leaned any thing new , I have to hold my hands up I haven't and if others feel the same what are we debating ?
all we do is kick the can round and round
disagree argue then wait for the thread to die and wait for a new one to start .
I admin anchors/anchoring is some thing we all take a interest in and yes if I see a thread that has anchor in the heading I will open it read down 20 or 30 posting and its the same old stuff.
its really getting boring , yawwwwwwwwwww
if some thing new turns up let debate it but lets not keep going around the same old stuff.

Beautifully put.

I will try now to avoid posting in anchor threads unless:
Genuine info on a newly designed anchor
Poster encourages others to believe in catenary (or its corollary, a chum)
Somebody says CQRs or Deltas don’t work (rather than they set in more distance and may drag in less extreme conditions than a NG)
Oh and with sublime gratitude if anybody has a non-riding sail method of diminishing veering about

 

[Pete7]

"Oh and with sublime gratitude if anybody has a non-riding sail method of diminishing veering about"

We have a pair of 820 kg bilge keels, so just park on the beach. They haven't dragged yet so prove that Johnathan's thesis of 'smaller is better' isn't true. Instead big is best.

Hang on, Johnathan said the Mantus has equal holding to a Delta, but the video proves otherwise. Johnathan, you lie like "cheap NAAFI watch"

 

[coopec]

THE END

 

[RupertW]

"Oh and with sublime gratitude if anybody has a non-riding sail method of diminishing veering about"

We have a pair of 820 kg bilge keels, so just park on the beach. They haven't dragged yet so prove that Johnathan's thesis of 'smaller is better' isn't true. Instead big is best.

Hang on, Johnathan said the Mantus has equal holding to a Delta, but the video proves otherwise. Johnathan, you lie like "cheap NAAFI watch"

For that you require something we don’t have.

Tides