Manoeuvring with outboards

Hadenough

Hadenough

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Genuine question from a (currently) raggie.
I just watched a Sports Fisher thingy, Beneteau Barracuda I think, about 25foot with twin 150 outboards. He came in nice and slowly on one engine but as he manoeuvred (nicely) into his pontoon berth he did not steer at all, the outboard in use did not move from the straight ahead position. He did however use copious amounts of bow thruster.
Now, I have never driven a similar boat but I familiar with big Ribs and outboards and find it difficult to understand the logic of not steering into a berth.
BTW this is in France where there are lots of these boats and they all do it.
Enlighten me.
 
Hadenough said:
Genuine question from a (currently) raggie.
I just watched a Sports Fisher thingy, Beneteau Barracuda I think, about 25foot with twin 150 outboards. He came in nice and slowly on one engine but as he manoeuvred (nicely) into his pontoon berth he did not steer at all, the outboard in use did not move from the straight ahead position. He did however use copious amounts of bow thruster.
Now, I have never driven a similar boat but I familiar with big Ribs and outboards and find it difficult to understand the logic of not steering into a berth.
BTW this is in France where there are lots of these boats and they all do it.
Enlighten me.
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Is there a right and a wrong way to park a boat? If the technique works for him then that's great IMO.
 
I used to take 8/12 adults/kids on my Boston Whaler with a Yam 200 on inter island trips. Pretty heavy, but dock to beach and back, you just get to know where and when to come off the throttle or add a dab of oppo. The fenders should hardly ever kiss the woodwork.
 
EU_Cruiser said:
More or less but abusing the thruster is symptomatic of something not akin to good seamanship.
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That's just total rubbish.

Using the thruster is appropriate when you want to move the bow without the stern kicking around.
In a tight marina, both thruster (move the bow) and engines (move the stern or twiddle the boat around an axis closer to the stern) can be required.

It varies for each boat, but on an SC35, although the engines/outdrives are way more powerful than a puny thruster, the axis of rotation if you try to spin on drives only will result in a wallet shrinking experience in a tight situation with a breeze where the stern is close to something else - you need both.

On a shorter boat (S28) where the drives are spaced further apart relative to the length of the boat you don't need a bow thruster at all.

It's nothing to do with seamanship.

.
 
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FlowerPower said:
That's just total rubbish.

It's nothing to do with seamanship.

.
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I wrote abusing the bow thruster. We see private boats using their thrusters a dozen times to line up and exit a lock. Most boats use it once or twice and many not at all. I saw a big cruiser the other day maneuvering off a wall mooring with little by way of obstruction apart from a narrowing of the canal in front of him, Thrusters and engines only - I did not see a turn of the wheel until he was past the narrowing. That's bad seamanship imo.
 
I have twin outdrives.
I position the boat then start to reverse in with the steering straight.
I use the engines to control the boat. Bursts if just in gear only. Reversing starboard engine brings the boat towards the pontoon on the port side for example . A burst of both engines brings the boat back straight. A nudge of bow thruster keeps the bow in line if the wind has caught it.
I bring the stern to the pontoon and the crew steps off and is ready to get the middle rope.
It works for me and in calm conditions I dont need the bow thruster.
Sounds very similar to the method you describe.
What should I do differently?
 
Hi we have got 36foot twin shaft driven boat and I never touch the steering wheel when berthing , and I have a bow thruster, I can cope without it and have done. So for 30 years as none of our previous boats had one .but it does ha e it’s uses on planing hull as the bow has very little bite In the water and thruster helps keep it in Check if it’s windy , I can make my boat go side ways, one engine forward and other in reverse and but of bow thruster ,and I’m not ashamed of using it and I don’t see harm in using the bow thruster , I think it keeps the weed off it by using it
 
I have bow and stern thruster, and find it is by far the most effective to use these and the 2 engines to berth the boat rather then use the helm. This is especially true in side-wind conditions.

I can't see why this should be poor seamanship as it achieves the objective without hitting the pontoon or neighbouring boats.
 
The type of boat the OP is talking about appear, to me anyway, to have a lot of windage at the bow and very little weight for the keel to grip in the water and with 2 big lumps at the back, I'd imagine quite difficult to control when berthing.
 
I have had stern drives never outboards of any size but I imagine it is similar

If you have shafts the props are under the boat. Outboards are at the back. As such the force required to make the boat twist on its axis is far higher

If the person you were watching wanted to move the stern then sure he can turn and you have a large an powerful stern thruster, but to move the bow he has a bow thruster and he used it

I have never understood the predudice against using the equipment the boat has.

I come out of my berth and turn the boat 90 degrees on thruster due to the proximity of the next boats bow lines.

It is there so use it.
 
A lot of people with highly manoervable boats think they are much more skilled than they really are and do not realise (because they have never helmed one) that a boat with a fixed outboard and no prop wash over the rudder(s) is a much more difficult proposition than a boat with prop walk and prop wash to help park the boat. Some of these same people can also be quite disparaging about others (in less handy boats) using a bow thruster.
 
May I humbly suggest that it's not as simple and straightforward as some suggest with their criticism.

For a twin screw boat on shafts, nearly all the manoeuvring at slow speed is done without touching the helm. Lots of sailers with their big rudders don't realise that at slow speeds, the tiny rudders on a planing boat have hardly any effect. Occasionally you can use a bit of helm and a nudge of fwd to help kick the stern round, but in most maneuverers most of the time it's a waste of time. When I am examining people for their YM (Offshore Power) if I see them winding the helm back and for at slow speed, I am never impressed and think of it as a sign of lack of experience. I know one very good instructor who teaches, "Helm straight ahead and put one hand in your pocket." when teaching twin shaft driving at slow speeds.

However Bow thrusters can be worth their weight in a strong cross wind when reversing into a berth. Motor cruisers get blown down by the bow very easily. A touch of bow thruster to keep her straight is a wonderful thing. Lots of other circumstances where a bow thruster makes life a lot simpler.

I admit that I do get irritated when I see (and hear) people steering their boats with the bow thruster. Off they go threading their way through the marina with bow thruster buzzing every few seconds. It works, but I'm not sure it's very good practice...

I also get irritated when people start using LOTS of bow thruster but it usually means they've got themselves into trouble and I suppose it's better to use the bow thruster than hit something. Walking yourself off a wall/pontoon with the bow thruster when there are other more elegant ways to proceed seems to show lack of experience/seamanship, but it's all a matter of opinion and best not to get worked up over these things too much.

I haven't commented on outboards because it's a whole different ball game and reversing the outboard with it pointed in towards the jetty is a powerful way of tucking your stern in. Same with outdrives - but beware the power...
 
john_morris_uk said:
May I humbly suggest that it's not as simple and straightforward as some suggest with their criticism.

For a twin screw boat on shafts, nearly all the manoeuvring at slow speed is done without touching the helm. Lots of sailers with their big rudders don't realise that at slow speeds, the tiny rudders on a planing boat have hardly any effect. Occasionally you can use a bit of helm and a nudge of fwd to help kick the stern round, but in most maneuverers most of the time it's a waste of time. When I am examining people for their YM (Offshore Power) if I see them winding the helm back and for at slow speed, I am never impressed and think of it as a sign of lack of experience. I know one very good instructor who teaches, "Helm straight ahead and put one hand in your pocket." when teaching twin shaft driving at slow speeds.

However Bow thrusters can be worth their weight in a strong cross wind when reversing into a berth. Motor cruisers get blown down by the bow very easily. A touch of bow thruster to keep her straight is a wonderful thing. Lots of other circumstances where a bow thruster makes life a lot simpler.

I admit that I do get irritated when I see (and hear) people steering their boats with the bow thruster. Off they go threading their way through the marina with bow thruster buzzing every few seconds. It works, but I'm not sure it's very good practice...

I also get irritated when people start using LOTS of bow thruster but it usually means they've got themselves into trouble and I suppose it's better to use the bow thruster than hit something. Walking yourself off a wall/pontoon with the bow thruster when there are other more elegant ways to proceed seems to show lack of experience/seamanship, but it's all a matter of opinion and best not to get worked up over these things too much.

I haven't commented on outboards because it's a whole different ball game and reversing the outboard with it pointed in towards the jetty is a powerful way of tucking your stern in. Same with outdrives - but beware the power...
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I almost never use the helm on a twin or triple screw boat.

I was given so much abuse when i trained at my last company for this despite always docking without hitting anything and with one exception first time every time. There are undeniably times when rudder input helps though.

Likewise my last UK command put us in some pretty tight spaces and 999.9% of the time it was only engine maneuvering.

I also had someone tell me I couldn't split twin outboards as it didn't work - WHILST I was demonstrating it did!

As for using a thruster to get out of trouble... I won't embarrass the border patrol crew who got stuck on the mud in Empress Dock a few years ago and desperately tried to thrust themselves alongside.

W.
 
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In crowded Med moorings with slime lines and mooring lines everywhere it can be very prudent to only steer with the thrusters. The more rudder, prop, leg etc moving in the water the more chance of snagging one
 
Bouba said:
In crowded Med moorings with slime lines and mooring lines everywhere it can be very prudent to only steer with the thrusters. The more rudder, prop, leg etc moving in the water the more chance of snagging one
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As I’ve done a lot of twin engine work in the Med I understand your post but I don’t necessarily agree. You still need forward propulsion and the bow thruster obviously doesn’t give you that so nudging ahead with the drives is the only option. Choosing port/starboard/both gives you slow speed steering.
 
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