Man overboard needs external help for rescue

[Talbot]

See http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/534336/yachtsmen-recovered-after-falling-overboard for the story.

So lets see. This story has one man overboard in a lifejacket and tethered to the vessel. There are two people left onboard. But they needed the assistance of a lifeboat in order to recover the man. If we stop at this point and just assume this is the situation without any concern about health of people onboard or in the water, this highlights a growing tendency to get someone else to come to your rescue, rather than working out how to do something yourself. (Please note that I am not casting aspertions on the people in the story, merely using the starting point of the story to illustrate a growing problem in our society).

Does anyone else feel concern about this lack of self-sufficiency.

Personally I would be ashamed of this - a call for assistance to get an injured person ashore as soon as possible is fine, but if you need external assistance to help do something as simple as this, perhaps you should not be at sea.

 

[SAMYL]

Who ever said it was 'simple' to recover someone from the sea - it most certainly is not.

 

[scottie]

MOB =Mayday unless back onboard

 

[Ripster]

Aside from the usual MOB kit - life sling, buoys, markers etc., we saw this ability to get one of us scared, weakened, wet and cold back on board with only usually two of us as crew, a major issue when assessing our MOB procedures. So... a very simple and cheap block and tackle arrangement that in our case goes on the boom end (but could be shackled to other places) works a treat to help lift the weight out. Using an extra snap shackle block to allow the line to line up nicely with a winch and the system worked well. Its likely that I will be the one to fall in so our arrangements had to be achievable by SWMBO. Took some practice and in anger at Sea it would probably not go as smoothly as practice, but at least we have something.

 

[Talbot]

Who ever said it was 'simple' to recover someone from the sea - it most certainly is not.

It is only not simple if you have not thought through the problem before, and do not have equipment identified for this purpose.

And yes, I have done this myself, and have while singlehanded in a F7, recovered a MOB from another boat.

And I had sent a Mayday relay while preparing to recover the man.

 

[bluedragon]

What you're missing here Talbot is that if you contact the CG (which you should) they will call out the RNLI whatever you may or may not want...and that is exactly the correct procedure. I'm also very surprised by your stance on this - it makes a lot of assumptions and is quite frankly irresponsible. I drill into my crew that if I go overboard, hit the panic button before trying to get me out. Just common sense unless you're way offshore. Try explaining to an inquest that you didn't call for help because we should all be self-sufficient and it would shame you!

 

[KevinT1]

This isn't about " But they needed the assistance of a lifeboat in order to recover the man" - you don't even know that is the case

As per the other replies - one of the first actions in a MOB situation is always to broadcast a MayDay - because you don't know how long it will take to get the casualty back onto the vessel and what condition he / she will be in.

 

[Achillesheel]

I have to say, that if it was me in the water, especially at this time of year, I would want my crew to call on whoever they could for assistance.

I was looking at the list of Falmouth Lifeboat shouts on their website the other day, and in several cases asked myself whether calling the lifeboat was absolutely necessary, but the comments from the RNLI are always that calling them was the right thing. As indeed the CG said in the case highlighted in the OP.

My impression after looking at what the RNLI in Falmouth have been called out for recently, is that I should not be concerned in any way about calling the CG if we get into any difficulties.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

You raise a good point Talbot but it is just a perception. Perhaps though, with rapid media delivery and fast dissemination of news, it appears that there is a lack of self sufficiency or that external help is always needed. I would propose that in fact the vast majority of leisure sailors are competent enough to get themselves out of whatever kerfuffle they get into (including staying out of trouble). The hapless helpless lot are only noticeable because it is easy to call for help and their predicaments get banded about the nation nearly instantly e.g. RNLI boat mounted cameras and rapid publication of interesting shots. There are also more at it these days.

 

[Daydream believer]

I tend to side with Talbot
I do however agree that a mayday should go out just in case something goes really wrong, like the MOB slipping the harness & getting seperated from the yacht. But maydays can be cancelled
Bit let's face it some people are just total wallies. (Like the chap in another thread who could not motor his boat back to the marina on Wndemere)
Everyone has to learn but as Talbot suggests people do just have the attitude " just call help & let someone else sort it" with no real thought about what they should be doing

 

[Talbot]

What you're missing here Talbot is that if you contact the CG (which you should) they will call out the RNLI whatever you may or may not want...and that is exactly the correct procedure. I'm also very surprised by your stance on this - it makes a lot of assumptions and is quite frankly irresponsible. I drill into my crew that if I go overboard, hit the panic button before trying to get me out. Just common sense unless you're way offshore. Try explaining to an inquest that you didn't call for help because we should all be self-sufficient and it would shame you!

Perhaps you need to sit back down and read my post again = the bit where I said that I had sent a Mayday relay whilst preparing, and the bit where I said that I was using the initial part of that event in order to make a point about self sufficiency.

There is a very wide difference between informing the Coastguard that there is someone overboard and that you are preparing to recover, versus passing the problem to the coastguard and waiting for them to tell you what to do (and again I emphasise that I am not casting aspersions at the quoted incident).

IMHO, the highest priority in a man overboard situation is to take steps to ensure that you can keep the person in sight - everything else pales into insignificance.

 

[Vara]

If I go over at 13 stone, the chances of my partner at 6 stone being able to get me out are pretty slim, even with the various blocks and bits of string I have prepared, we tried a dead lift from the pontoon and it was not entirely successful.
if position is reversed not a prob.

in the past I have done live mob drills with a 6 strong crew and it was less than easy to get the casualty on board.

The SOP on Vara in the event of MOB is to hit the red help button, I feel that this is no different from calling the fire brigade to a house fire before deploying the domestic extinguishers.

Peddling the "calling for help is only done by wimps" is a potentially dangerous thing to do, any of the emergency services will tell you that they prefer to be called to an incident where they are not ultimately needed, than to be sitting doing nothing while people are in difficulty.

Another factor to consider is that any MOB casualty who is in the water for any time is likely to be hypothermic, so the quicker they are casevaced the better.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... as Talbot suggests people do just have the attitude " just call help & let someone else sort it" with no real thought about what they should be doing

Talbot is suggesting that there is a growing number of these type of people in society; however they have always existed. I don't think the number is growing because the numbers requiring assistance don't suggest that. The growth in leisure sailing has not seen a steeper growth in those requiring assistance.

 

[blenkinsop]

I seem to recall that there has been at least one MOB case where the sole remaining crew went below to send a Mayday, with the result that he lost sight of the casualty, who was not subsequently recovered.

 

[John.edwards]

I am with talbot. I gave a lecture today on emergency responses to chemcial spills and the experiences of our consultancy team in providing spill managemnt response advice to the emergency services. the value of such reviews is that you can perturb the observed circumstances as a teaching aid. the What if? question can be used to identify flaws in procedures and to get people thinking about alternative approaches to problems. In the same way I gave a session on MOB and the use of the lifraft as a first step to secure a casualty before lifting them aboard. the what if in the case talbot intriocduces would be 'what if they were further offshore and the response time for assistance was a lot greater?'.. would the crew have simply waited for help?

 

[John.edwards]

I seem to recall that there has been at least one MOB case where the sole remaining crew went below to send a Mayday, with the result that he lost sight of the casualty, who was not subsequently recovered.

but that is just senseless and not an accepted strategy. call mayday if possible but make every effort to remain in touch with the mob as a priority. a cockpit handheld vhf is always good. or maneoevre closer to the mob (10-15 metres) then call mayday. the key to the whole scenario raised by talbot is to practice, practice, practice.

 

[bedouin]

Actually he didn't need the assistance of a lifeboat, a passing RIB helped out when hearing the Mayday.

It seems that everyone did exactly the correct thing - perhaps they could have rescued him themselves (by the time the RIB arrived he was in the liferaft anyway) but why risk it?

If I were in the water with the temps as they are now I would hope every possible means would be used to get me out ASAP.

Messing around trying to recover the MOB yourself could have lead to a tragedy.

 

[oldbilbo]

I'm certainly with the 'call the Coastguard using the on-board system provided for exactly that purpose'. Even if the MOB swims back to the boat and climbs back in completely unaided, all professional advice is that his ( her? ) vital signs will need monitoring/checking out for quite some time by a medical professional. In the event of a life-threatening emergency event - and MOB, even dangling, is certainly that - it doesn't make sense to wait to see how things develop.

On another matter, I looked with interest at the report made on the PBO News pages here by a certain Laura Kitching....

RNLI brighton rescue

".....The rescue of a yachtsmen who fell overboard in the Solent was boosted by his lifejacket......

Newhaven Coastguard rescue team was called out and Brighton RNLI lifeboat was also requested to launch.

The RHIB came alongside and took the man to Brighton Marina where he was checked over...."

While understanding the OP's concerns about folks whose response to a problem is to call someone else to deal with it, I'm similarly concerned about a news reporter working for 'Britain's favourite boating magazine' who doesn't have the wit to realise that neither Newhaven nor Dover are anywhere near the Solent, and the RHIB ( ? ) which assisted would have been faced with a very long and rather unnecessary passage to take the casualty from where he 'fell overboard in the Solent' to first responders at Brighton Marina.

I find myself wondering quite what skills Ms Kitching brings to the job....

Perhaps the 63-year old MOB should be grateful he wasn't picked up by an outbound car carrier, in which case he might anticipate being landed 3 weeks from now, in South Korea....

 

[Barnacle Bill]

MAYDAY good, it will probably be heard by someone close by with a better craft for picking someone out of the water, and it can always be cancelled if the person is recovered. In these circumstances there's a danger to life, so MAYDAY is entirely appropriate.

Note the advice on using the liferaft. This is probably easier, quicker and a more flexible approach than complex MOB recovery gear (particularly that involving the boom, because you'll need to drop the main first).

 

[prv]

particularly that involving the boom, because you'll need to drop the main first

+1 - it seems to be a common idea, sometimes even using the mainsheet (detached at the lower end) as the hoist, but I just can't imagine trying it in anything but a flat calm with the sail tightly stowed. Otherwise you either have to stow the sail before you can start, or the wind is going to be deciding where your hoisting derrick goes, not you.

I don't see any need for a derrick anyway, as long as the hoisting line is secured far enough up the mast (ie generally on the end of a halyard, though on Kindred Spirit I used the running backstays which of course had beefy tackles already rigged). Yes, the casualty will be pressed against the topsides a little on the way up, but this is not a time for finesse.

Pete