Mallorca to Marseille in feb 19

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Charlie1205

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Hi all new to the site

Just want to ask a few questions as what I’m about to possibly endure

Recently brought a fair line sedan 45 twin Volvo penta tam71d

Bring it back from Mallorca to Marseille feb 14th

Can anyone advise me of the potential sea conditions this time of year?


Would you advise to go straight across the mouth of the golf or go via Barcelona then across?

What will I get from my engines lph? At around 8-10 knots

Thanks in advance
 
Depends on the condition/ service history of the new to you boat which is difficult to ascertain from the info given so far .
Gut feeling is do short closest to land land hops .
8-10 knots the engines will be sipping fuel my 12.8 L do about 20L each ,so 40 / hr .( similiar L boat )
It depends on the final gear ratio what rpm for me about 825 rpm .

Weather .
If it’s flat calm I would gun it at its designed cruise speed .In other words the speed and sea conditions are interactive.
If it’s 1-3 M waves with a swell , displacement speed 8/10 knots could be rarther uncontrollably rolling about depending on the wave direction , against get the thing up on its chines planning along for a better ride and get it over .

What’s the rationale of 8 knots ish , has it got a an issue with the engines ? If so resolve that before undertaking the trip .

The only issue I found doing a winter x Med trip was planning around the winter opening times of the potential fuel pick up points .Or having sufficient local language skills and knowledge to read the signage on the( closed door ) not open service to be able to call someone out to open up .
What I,am saying is alternate days or 10-3 or what ever may not fit in with your plans and you need to know / plan legs around those times .

Weather changes quickly too and the ability to move fast and plane means you can meet fuel openings and beat weather coming from behind .

Daylight is the limiting factor imho .
We were tucked up in a marina as night fell and slipped lines at dawn .
Each to there own doing a night passage in a new to you boat in unfamiliar waters .
 
8-10 knots is an odd speed for that boat.

Full displacement speed on a 45ft boat is around 7knts.
8 is an ok speed - you’ll be pushing a bit of hump but she’ll be stable. 10knts you’ll be burning quite a bit of fuel and you’ll be climbing your own hump quite hard.

Either 7-8knts or plane at 16-18knts. No point of much in the middle.

Where is the boat on Mallorca? North or south? Weather can be fine in Feb and it can be pretty windy. You’ll need to have a long window to complete the trip and be prepared to go at short notice to make weather windows.

To Barcelona is about 110-120 miles. What’s the distance direct to Marseille?
 
Hi guys thanks for you reply’s,

Firstly to portofino reply

Engines are fine fired up first time and drove like a dream on sea trail serviced 3years about however has only been used 20hours or so since that service, once back she will get one in total engine hours are low at 950.

What spares would you recommend to bring with us on the passage???

No real theory behind the 8 knots just want to do it as economical as possible really. And enjoy the crossing take it as safely as poss as it’s my first time in the med.

I plan to fill her up 1400l how many more fuel stops do you anticipate. Also we’re best cheapest for diesel or are they all relatively the same now?


Whitelighter
The boat is down in Cala d or marina

Full distance straight across is around 328 to Marseille

Thanks again
 
+1 as per Whitelighter. February is med winter and the weather is not very predictable (is it ever). I got seriously caught out a few years back in February on the Costa Blanca when a force 8 came out of nowhere (not nice!)
If you have a look at windfinder website today/this week you will get the idea - different winds in different strengths all along your possible routes.
As it's a new to you boat, trying to go from Mallorca to Marseilles direct would be brave. Not sure you would have fuel capacity even at pootling speeds (lovely boat and engines by the way)
Better to go to Sant Carles la Rapita or Tarragona or Barcelona depending upon conditions on the day. All of which are about 110 miles open water doable at planing speed or pootling at @ 7 knots (any faster and you would be better off planing) There after follow the coast north and you can duck into lots of harbours as needed if the weather gets nasty. Fuel wise I had a similar size boat with 71Bs and it did about 0.9mpg at 20kn. However yours is bigger and heavier so I would guess nearer 0.8mpg depending on the sea state. Going slow 7knt, I would estimate @ 2.5mpg maybe 3mpg

If it was me I would take the boat for a proper thrashing around the bay before doing a seriously big trip, make sure there are no hidden surprises (dodgy fuel, diesel bug, water in fuel tanks, iffy batteries etc). Also being me I would probably then go from Mallorca to Ibiza to build my confidence in the boat (and me), go around the side of Ibiza with the least wind, then head off across to Denia (only 50 miles open water then) and go north - further but safer. Minimise the open water stretches at a time of year when the weather is tricky. If the forecast is more than a F4 in the open water leg, I wouldn't go at this time of year. To be honestly in your shoes I would wait until May at the earliest.
 
I have done the trip twice one time in a Targa 40 from North Mallorca to Palamos. And last summer from South Mallorca to Palamos but heading (as recommended by a delivery skipper) to Barcelona untill you can see the telecom tower then peel off up the coast. In both cases the firm recommendation was leave as early as possible so you are in port before the winds pick up in the afternoon. If you get it right it can be easy sailing but it could be very unpleasant or dangerous if you get it wrong. Both time cruised at 20-25 knots. Above comments about weather windows are very valid. When I picked up the T40 (used a delivery skipper that time) We had to leave a day early in a rush or the next weather window would have been a week later.
 
Thanks guys

What spares engine bits would you recommend to bring with us on the passage???

I plan to fill her up 1400l how many more fuel stops do you anticipate. Also we’re best cheapest for diesel or are they all relatively the same now
 
Gulf of Lion can be hellish. We got caught out a couple of years back. F2 when we set out from La Ciotat near Marseilles and hit a F6/7 in the middle then back to F2 to arrive in Llanca (Top of Cap de Creus, Costa Brava and a lovely little Spanish seaside town and excellent marina) 110 miles and most at, not by choice, displacement speed.
If you look at the "Windy" weather app, you can see the wind generally rushing down the Rhone valley into the Gulf (30-40 knots today!!)
Suggest stop at Llanca and either wait for a calm spot or go round the long way.
 
Charlie1205 said:
Thanks guys

What spares engine bits would you recommend to bring with us on the passage???

I plan to fill her up 1400l how many more fuel stops do you anticipate. Also we’re best cheapest for diesel or are they all relatively the same now
Click to expand...

That will give you a safe range at planing speed of about 220 miles, so you'll need to do the maths based on the route you take. Costs vary for diesel, again check ahead based on the route you plan to take.

As for spares, I had the exact same boat 20 years ago. You should take spare impellers, a bunch of fuel filters, a few pre-filters, oil and the means to repair a coolant hose. Beware, the stbd impeller is a pig to change and really needs the cabinet removed in the guest cabin to access through the bullkhead. Make sure you have the tools to do all this, plus seasickness pills if you have to do any of this in the middle of a crossing.
 
Markc


How did you find the boat

In bad weather and in general it’s my first fair sized boat so looking forward to the challenge

Any place you recommend to purpose the items
 
kashurst said:
If it was me I would take the boat for a proper thrashing around the bay before doing a seriously big trip, make sure there are no hidden surprises (dodgy fuel, diesel bug, water in fuel tanks, iffy batteries etc). Also being me I would probably then go from Mallorca to Ibiza to build my confidence in the boat (and me), go around the side of Ibiza with the least wind, then head off across to Denia (only 50 miles open water then) and go north - further but safer. Minimise the open water stretches at a time of year when the weather is tricky. If the forecast is more than a F4 in the open water leg, I wouldn't go at this time of year. To be honestly in your shoes I would wait until May at the earliest.
Click to expand...

I think this is good advice. Definitely wouldn't trust the weather window or a new to you boat for the full crossing, BTW it looks to be about 250nm not 328 ?
I would base your decision making on safety and not time or economy. Hence I would also take the shortest open sea crossing ie Ibiza - Denia. If everything is going well when your 60% across and conditions look favorable you can always turn North and head towards Sant Carles with plenty of bailouts along the way.
 
Charlie1205 said:
Markc


How did you find the boat

In bad weather and in general it’s my first fair sized boat so looking forward to the challenge

Any place you recommend to purpose the items
Click to expand...

The boat was great, but I think that unless the sea was super flat, I'd be going at 20knts.

It's been a long time sine I bought Volvo parts, but I used to use Keypart. Google is your friend.

As an addendum to my previous answer, make sure you know how to do all the fixes before you leave, because you won't want to learn them rolling about 50 miles from land! If you feel you are lacking some experience, I suggest taking a pro skipper with you.. peace of mind and experience could be invaluable.
 
As it has been @ 3 years since a proper service, I would definitely change both impellers - probably fine but 3 years with very little use and they could just go pop.
check tension on the drive belts, and have a look, probably change the fuel filters after a decent thrash about the bay. Hopefully you will just curse me for swapping out perfectly good parts but changing those things at sea is not something you really want to do. Also good practice, for the future.
 
I am in Cala Dor also. Welcome to the forum.

I have done this trip in a 65 ft boat.

There are 2 main variables. Range and weather.

I went To Estartit, then across the bay of Roses and then South of France.

I dont know if you have tried long distance displacement cruising, but in anything other than flat flat calm it is miserable.

Personally I think heading direct is a poor idea, especially at that time of year. The weather? Who knows - look at the forecast - but when the Mistral blows in the bay of Roses - boy does it blow. You cant speed up or you run out of fuel. Head to the Spanish coast.

You will need fuel filters, belts, impellers and the tool to fit them.

Charlie1205 said:
Hi guys thanks for you reply’s,

Firstly to portofino reply

Engines are fine fired up first time and drove like a dream on sea trail serviced 3years about however has only been used 20hours or so since that service, once back she will get one in total engine hours are low at 950.

What spares would you recommend to bring with us on the passage???

No real theory behind the 8 knots just want to do it as economical as possible really. And enjoy the crossing take it as safely as poss as it’s my first time in the med.

I plan to fill her up 1400l how many more fuel stops do you anticipate. Also we’re best cheapest for diesel or are they all relatively the same now?


Whitelighter
The boat is down in Cala d or marina

Full distance straight across is around 328 to Marseille

Thanks again
Click to expand...
 
I would put new belts and impellers on the engines before the departure date and as said above take it out for a thrash to check for weeps n seeps ,squeaks .

How cleans the stern gear ?
This time of the year they are usually fouled up ,if so arrange for a diver .
€200 spent a few days before will extend the range and be paid back in better mpg , but crucially ease the stress on the engines .

My only concern is the 20 hrs in the previous 36 months and the same oil .
Guessing the seatrail was about an hour of which a fraction at full chat or 80/90 % chat ?

Just thinking old oil sludged sedimented out and the oil should be changed annually because the oil's additive package deteriorates over time and gets further used up holding contaminants in suspension. This is not related to engine operation (mileage) just time.

It’s just the engines are gonna be going by the sounds of things @8 knots ,over 10 hr days any weakness from blocked lub journels or caked up seals will come out .

The skipping of this by the PO does not bode well in my book .

So presume the diesel must be old ? If so I would buy an additive like Starbrite .
Is there any way you can drain some off from the bottom of the tank to see if it’s cloudy or not ?

We had a in date 10 pax liferaft and 2x ERIP in date , our spares kit was pretty comprehensive, belts filters etc and even injector tips + special tools to change them .Spare prop set + bolts - all came with the boat .

Day light is the limiting factor imho with a winter new to you boat caper .
If you can do a mini starter trip to Ibiza on the first day and push the engines I would do that .
The rest of the trip go less rpm than the Ibiza leg in the knowledge they can take it .
 
I have done this trip in the past in the opposite direction from Port Napoleon in a 46 footer and we went via Empuriabrava and Barcelona. Even with this route you have to be very sure about sea conditions in the Golf de Lion and the hop from Barcelona to Mallorca. Personally I think its nuts to attempt this trip direct from Mallorca to Marseille in a boat you do not know in February. The other potential big issue you've got is that if you do hit a mistral wind you'll be heading nearly right into it and that would be seriously uncomfortable to say the least
 
Did you buy it from boats.co.uk? If so they have delivery skippers who might do it for you.

It is not really the time of year to cross in a new to you boat.

Pete on here was given the same advise when he bought a targa and he is still on the mainland!

If you do it just be very sure of the weather window
 
I agree with NGM - it is only about 260 nautical miles from Cala d'Or to Marseille.
More importantly, it is still only 300 nautical miles if you go via Palamos.
Palamos is a good place to fuel and you could wait there for a good weather window before crossing the GDL

However, I don't agree with NGM's pint about heading to Ibiza first.
A couple of reasons - it is long way out of the way but, more importantly, you desperately need a good "shake down" before venturing out into open water.
Things WILL go wrong - it is a new boat to you.
So, my advice would be a slow cruise (at the speed that you intend doing for the main crossings) from Cala D'Or to Alcudia.
Plan to book into the marina in Alcudia to enjoy the place and if you need repairs, you would still be in Mallorca where there is excellent support.
Good fuel in Alcudia and it is very sheltered if you need to stay.
You would learn a lot during the run from Cala D'Or to Alcudia.
Then plan a more adventurous crossing to Palamos 125 nautical miles - do-able in a daylight day.
By the time you get to Palamos, you will have learned a lot about the boat.
I would plan to have a few days in Palamos.
Plans are always there for changing - so if the weather was good in the GDL - go for it.
Otherwise just wait until it is good.

We do the crossing from Sant Carles to Mallorca several times each year - it is many times cheaper to keep the boat on the mainland in Sant Carles than in Mallorca.
So we know the distances involved.
Our boat is 67 feet long so quite a bit bigger and we would think twice about doing a long run like yours without some careful staging/hops.

BTW
Your boat's displacement speed is a function of its waterline length.
Displacement speed is the fastest that a boat can go through the water without having to climb up onto the bow wave to ride over the water.
The formula is - the square root of the water line length times 1.43.
Like Whitelighter says - that makes your max displacement speed about 7 knots.
I agree with him when he says push a bow wave but running at 8 knots - it should make the boat a little more stable.
The alternative is planing at 15 knots- in which case you will burn significantly more fuel.

In our case, we cruise at either 10 knots of 25 knots.
Our fuel burn at 25 knots is three times the fuel burn at 10 knots.

IMO, you could expect the same proportional difference between (say) 8 knots and 15 knots.
And as Jez says, there isn't really much point in running at any speed between the two.

We do a lot of "Pootling" - that what we call displacement speed cruising.
BTW don't call it "Poodling" thats something else!!!

Hope that helps
 
I think going to Ibiza is nuts - its 100 miles ( 50 there and back) in the wrong direction.

Mike above is right, shake down from C D'or up to Alcudia, gives you a chance to break something while its non critical so you can fix it.
Berths are cheap in Alcudia - book for a couple of days, lots of services and boat fixers if you need them.

Run from there to Palamos is also a good idea. When we delivered our boat from St Tropez to mainland we stopped there after GDL and its a good facility. Not exciting, but a well protected marina will fuel and a couple of eateries. Key is lots of boats and there for fixy men again.

From there, if the weather is really poor and you have to go you can hug the coast round to Marseilles or wait for a window and cross to the other side.

Doable in three days, plan to take a week. Likely you'll do it somewhere in between.
 
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